Redemption :D

f0xx

Landscape Designer
Joined
Dec 18, 2007
Messages
2,195
Location
Plovdiv/Bulgaria
Re: Jizz allie

Re: Jizz allie

Well, to be honest Subbie, I would have done the same thing on JJ's place... I have even done it in the past... Welshie will support me I think.

In Redemption's situation they had to choose between 3 different scenarios:

1) Them being beaten and then Jizz and RT fights it out - which is the worst case, because they get no chance to win, so we remove that and we are left with the two:

A) Jizz being beaten and then they (Redemption) and RT fight it out
B) RT being beaten and they (Redemption) and Jizz fight it out

Now you should ask yourself, if you were a leader of Redemption and you WANT to win the round, which ally would you rather face? IE, every leader with half sense would want to fight the weaker of the two allies, which in JJ's case happened.

I believe he knew he had no chance against RT, I also believe that he knew he had little chance against Jizz, but little chance is always better than no chance at all. So yeah, back to my point, JJ played his cards well (not the best way, but still well enough). If they were a bit better organised and would have hit Jizz when they were weak they would have grabbed the round even. So all of you who say JJ is an idiot, please put yourself on his place and tell me that you wouldn't have done the same.

Also, if I was on RT's place I would be quite flattered as in JJ's eyes its obvious that you guys are the better alliance.
 

DarkSider

Tree Surgeon
Joined
Dec 14, 2007
Messages
796
Re: Jizz allie

Re: Jizz allie

I still stand by my previous posts. Redemption was just lucky Jizz attacked like headless chickens for a few days, i even talked with several players in all the top 3 alliances trying to find out what's going on with their leadership/organizers, why the attacking plans are so rubbish :p Redemption had a chance those few days in which they didn't managed to kill Jizz and as soon as Hero stepped in and started organizing, Redemption was completly dominated 1:1 after apparently they had the upper hand in many other BR's. Activity and will in Jizz was far superior and the end of the war was expected.
And i don't agree with f0xx. If JJ played for himself and his alliance as prime objective instead killing RT and see what happens after, he would have made pacts with RT *at the right time* to bash Jizz and then they would have jumped on RT before those had a chance of rebuilding. Imho and i'm sure some will disagree, he made the very same mistake as Podunk last round getting his members invest time and effort in destroying somebody instead getting something for themselfs. It was his choice and he might do it 100 times more in the same scenario knowing what happens at the end, but it was a poor tactic imo :)
 

JJbrosandjl

Harvester
Joined
Jan 1, 2008
Messages
158
Re: Jizz allie

Re: Jizz allie

DarkSider said:
I still stand by my previous posts. Redemption was just lucky Jizz attacked like headless chickens for a few days, i even talked with several players in all the top 3 alliances trying to find out what's going on with their leadership/organizers, why the attacking plans are so rubbish :p Redemption had a chance those few days in which they didn't managed to kill Jizz and as soon as Hero stepped in and started organizing, Redemption was completly dominated 1:1 after apparently they had the upper hand in many other BR's. Activity and will in Jizz was far superior and the end of the war was expected.
And i don't agree with f0xx. If JJ played for himself and his alliance as prime objective instead killing RT and see what happens after, he would have made pacts with RT *at the right time* to bash Jizz and then they would have jumped on RT before those had a chance of rebuilding. Imho and i'm sure some will disagree, he made the very same mistake as Podunk last round getting his members invest time and effort in destroying somebody instead getting something for themselfs. It was his choice and he might do it 100 times more in the same scenario knowing what happens at the end, but it was a poor tactic imo :)

If you aren't involved in the discussions between the top 3 alliances, then please don't assume things. Not everyone will tell you the real story and using "chats with members" as a basis for your so called facts is unjust. Here was the exact situation:

(Oh yes before I continue I must apologize to Rama for not sticking to the plan originally, although I did try my best to keep it a 1 vs 1 :p)

During the hit on RT, I was approached several times by Twigley, and Franny to hit Jizz. I felt that if Jizz was killed then we'd stand no chance at wall with RT, therefore I chose to reject their demands.

After RT went into mass sleep mode, we both knew that RT only had one objective in mind, which was to get us and Jizz warring. At that time, both sides were told that RT was in sleep for 7 days, and premonitions of RT actually being in sleep for 3 days were ignored. Both sides agreed to a time of 00 GMT Friday to start the war. (Exactly 3 days RT entered sleep mode, so we could see whether or not they were in sleep for 3 days or not). We all did war preperations, LTs were set, both alliances had most of their players online etc.

At this particular moment, I was approached by Lukey. Lukey offered us a nap with them so we wouldn't bash them with Jizz. I weighed both sides and decided to play it steady and do the following: 1. Nap RT for one day until friday, in the meantime avoiding attacking RT with Jizz and making up excuses, 2. Try to get Rama to war us on the weekend by convincing them RT is out of the picture, I did this because RT would have been on our side from what I heard from Lukey (although I know he might not represent the entire alliance). 3. War with Rama on the weekend.

Everything worked out pefectly as I wouldn't be online on Thursday so pushing the war to Friday was a smart thing to do. We also had RT relatively on our side, Jizz would waste their troops on RT while we built and stayed low for a day. Rama agreed to war on Friday and it was still considered a "fair war".

When we went to war, yes we were winning and please do not find excuses for losing at the start and such. I could have made a *billion* true excuses for why we lost the war and I still do not want it publicised, but I'm sure the players in Jizz all know... Saying Jizz was poorly organized at the start because of vacations and Rama etc are all a bunch of lame excuses, it's a war, do you think Germany would have stopped invading Russia if the Russian leader was sick?

After the war started, RT wanted to help us, but they never sent. Later RT claims that we did not want to help in the resistance (now who would believe that :p). So we were basically on Jizz one vs one, although still napped with RT. After we got taken down RT jumped in for land and basically everyone went into sleep mode (without officer consent) and a couple of players left.


I would just like to say that I have no regrets of how I played the round. Few people know how many aspects I had to consider before making the decisions I did make. I consulted a player who wasn't in our alliance and remained neutral upon the matter and he said that what I proposed would be good for the aliance so I stuck by it. If you want to critcise my moves then go ahead, but don't target me as a person because that would be morally incorrect (@ Subdivision), since after all, it is just a game, and to call someone stupid based on the game is just silly in itself.

Thanks for reading, I just wanted to clear a few things up (might be lots of spelling mistakes since I typed this in a hurry lol)

Have a nice day :)
 

pinpower

Landscape Designer
Super Moderator
Joined
Dec 20, 2007
Messages
2,136
Location
Bournemouth
Re: Jizz allie

Re: Jizz allie

antis' shack said:
stop calling JJ stupid, he's canadian

holy crap...JJ is canadian???...oh god...ive played probably 3 rounds with him and i have always thought he was english....i feel cheated...i hope to god he isnt a 40 year old man wearing leather as well...

;)
 

JJbrosandjl

Harvester
Joined
Jan 1, 2008
Messages
158
Re: Jizz allie

Re: Jizz allie

pinpower said:
antis' shack said:
stop calling JJ stupid, he's canadian

holy crap...JJ is canadian???...oh god...ive played probably 3 rounds with him and i have always thought he was english....i feel cheated...i hope to god he isnt a 40 year old man wearing leather as well...

;)


Stupid noob :p, I was always nightcover for your ass ;)
 

NoobCake

Planter
Joined
Apr 7, 2008
Messages
30
Re: Jizz allie

Re: Jizz allie

f0xx said:
Well, to be honest Subbie, I would have done the same thing on JJ's place... I have even done it in the past... Welshie will support me I think.

In Redemption's situation they had to choose between 3 different scenarios:

1) Them being beaten and then Jizz and RT fights it out - which is the worst case, because they get no chance to win, so we remove that and we are left with the two:

A) Jizz being beaten and then they (Redemption) and RT fight it out
B) RT being beaten and they (Redemption) and Jizz fight it out

Now you should ask yourself, if you were a leader of Redemption and you WANT to win the round, which ally would you rather face? IE, every leader with half sense would want to fight the weaker of the two allies, which in JJ's case happened.

I believe he knew he had no chance against RT, I also believe that he knew he had little chance against Jizz, but little chance is always better than no chance at all. So yeah, back to my point, JJ played his cards well (not the best way, but still well enough). If they were a bit better organised and would have hit Jizz when they were weak they would have grabbed the round even. So all of you who say JJ is an idiot, please put yourself on his place and tell me that you wouldn't have done the same.

Also, if I was on RT's place I would be quite flattered as in JJ's eyes its obvious that you guys are the better alliance.


Well it seems that people have made Jizz out to be less talented than we actually are. We have never felt that any alliance was any better than we are, and i stick to my earlier post that out of the people playing bush these days I wouldnt replace many of the people in Jizz at all if I was going for a "best alliance" setup. There are A LOT of underrated players in here and I feel there are a lot of overrated people in RT that had a couple good rounds and spend lots of time in #bush and/or posting in forums and therefore have a name that is "known"

Anyways I think that the players in Jizz need some credit (ill take none of it for that matter) and that people should stop acting like we do not deserve to be where we are...

JJ is right, very few people know what has happened with the politics of the top three alliance. Once I became leader I know I was in contact both of the other leaders on a regular basis...all three trying to come out on top to win the round. No one used the other and the war between Rede and Jizz was exactly what both alliances had planned...We got off to a slow start with the mishaps but as DS stated, shortly after we regained our activity and got some organization and went on to win the war fairly dramatically in a short amount of time.

So please stop ranting people...JJ played the round well, as did Jizz...RT was a good alliance and deserves some recognition, but i will say nothing about them being the best alliance this round at all...

I sure hope we can just get on with the round...
 

Reub

Pruner
Joined
Dec 14, 2007
Messages
72
Re: Jizz allie

Re: Jizz allie

f0xx said:
Well, to be honest Subbie, I would have done the same thing on JJ's place... I have even done it in the past... Welshie will support me I think.

In Redemption's situation they had to choose between 3 different scenarios:

1) Them being beaten and then Jizz and RT fights it out - which is the worst case, because they get no chance to win, so we remove that and we are left with the two:

A) Jizz being beaten and then they (Redemption) and RT fight it out
B) RT being beaten and they (Redemption) and Jizz fight it out

Now you should ask yourself, if you were a leader of Redemption and you WANT to win the round, which ally would you rather face? IE, every leader with half sense would want to fight the weaker of the two allies, which in JJ's case happened.

I believe he knew he had no chance against RT, I also believe that he knew he had little chance against Jizz, but little chance is always better than no chance at all. So yeah, back to my point, JJ played his cards well (not the best way, but still well enough). If they were a bit better organised and would have hit Jizz when they were weak they would have grabbed the round even. So all of you who say JJ is an idiot, please put yourself on his place and tell me that you wouldn't have done the same.

Also, if I was on RT's place I would be quite flattered as in JJ's eyes its obvious that you guys are the better alliance.

I believe that this post ^^ sums this whole thread up and sums that whole war up. Completely.
 

Subdivisions

Harvester
Joined
Dec 17, 2007
Messages
109
Re: Redemption :D

Aww, my best post in this discussion was deleted....coincidence? I think not :p

But meh, I'll drop it...you believe what you will, because I know what went down...
 

DarkSider

Tree Surgeon
Joined
Dec 14, 2007
Messages
796
Re: Jizz allie

Re: Jizz allie

Reub said:
f0xx said:

I believe that this post ^^ sums this whole thread up and sums that whole war up. Completely.

That post it's rubbish. There is far more than black and white, warring 1:1 a full strenght alliance no matter what case. As anti i think very well pointed out it was very close to Panoply round. One alliance is scared of the big names in one of other 2 alliances and overates them considering no matter what they must not fight against those at the end. Panoply wrongly (imo) choosed to help Legends (an alliance that got massed before for a week or so and was still alive and kicking) to kill Retarted (which colapsed like a wall of cards as soon as incs started). Big names and cockyness in Retarted (starting 1 day late) blind Mene and Maxi who forgot Legends it's no match for them if those managed to survive a much bigger offensive. In our round a similar thing happened. JJ was determined to give twigley& Co no chance, was more "scared" of the big names and history of RT then the large military& land advantage Jizz had. JJ had one big advantage he never used. He lead the most underated alliance of the 3. With that you can make the world go round, no need to consider a scenario in which you get to fight any of the other 2 ALONE and at FULL strenght. But as i said before, JJ was imo blind by his determination to keep twigs killed and didn't put 100% thought into planning a win.
 
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