Help? Doesn't make sense

[Alcibiades]

Because if anti INN units targeted both geos and gardies equally, flakking would be null and void.

Gurus target all innocents which means the differing stats and differing amounts of the geos versus gardies affects how much the guru distracts.

You were just unlucky it seems.

 

[LuckySports]

There is nothing off about that BR.. it is easily exactly how I would expect the battle to go based on the units that were obviously present there. I don't know why yall keep arguing about it..

you ALWAYS assume 10:1 w/ yobs on wheelies if you are defending.. thats standard practice. If they get a better ratio, sweet.. you are covered.. but its not often they'll get a worse one.

 

[tobapopalos]

There is nothing off about that BR.. it is easily exactly how I would expect the battle to go based on the units that were obviously present there. I don't know why yall keep arguing about it..

you ALWAYS assume 10:1 w/ yobs on wheelies if you are defending.. thats standard practice. If they get a better ratio, sweet.. you are covered.. but its not often they'll get a worse one.

Totally agreed.

And the gurus do target the gards + wheels equally. If there are 1 million gurus against 990k gards and 10k wheels then your gurus will target each unit 1:1. But because wheels are stronger than gards they survive better, meaning the gurus will block all the gardeners easily but not necessarily the wheelbarrowers. That's why when you are defending against flak you always need more than one layer of defence with plenty of sweepers.

 

[willymchilybily]

Because if anti INN units targeted both geos and gardies equally, flakking would be null and void.

Gurus target all innocents which means the differing stats and differing amounts of the geos versus gardies affects how much the guru distracts.

You were just unlucky it seems.

also sorcs and golems wud be kick ass..

i thought id throw my ten cents in, but as the explanation has been given yobs not in large enough quantities to fully sweep the wheelies. id like to mention hippies armour stripping ability.

before bunkers targeted "LET|All" and when this was the case flaking a bunker although painful could be done with the right assisting units and some tractors. to prevent this tractor flaking people in the know would buy up massively on hippes to go with thier other units (as spikes and sgt like the all targeting of the bunker sentries, were not specifically hitting the geos through the other crap was there.not just innnocents but all sorts werwe helping flak). hippies did infact do enough AD specifically targeting the innocents, to hit some of the geos through the tractors (as the targeting isnt unit by unit as mentioned but by the group )

so after bunker spikes and sentries mopped up most of the regular gardeners, leaving some miscilaneous units that werent innocent, and tractors and geos enough hippies could target the geos through the flak (tractors expensive) and do enough AD to allow SGT and yobs to sweep more effecively. As yobs & sgt target HD more than AD and u all know from the manual u cant stop/kill a unit till its AD is gone by stripping through the tractors the unit could be stopped

hence hippy help you stop the geos. even if you didnt stop all the tractors. highly effective. so in summation hippies do a tiny bit more AD than than most other "basics". and more than the amount of HD they do leaving some innocents partially or fully stripped. (even gurus for example dont have enough AD for all thier potential HD and do better when assited by excess hippy AD/stripping) hippies are infact very useful in some situations...not so much now.. and nopjes is right. (even if he lacked thorough explanation)

ofc people see guru get 1:5 why bother with that extra armour stripping when cost for cost mass guru works better 99% of the time.....unless your perhaps facing CG flak.....cats out the bag now GL rif

 

[Iamsmart]

I wonder if wily realizes the entire story and logic of his post didn't actua.ly back up or in general have anything to do with what we were arguing about

 

[willymchilybily]

yeah i was more on about the mid section of the thread where there was some discussion on hippies stripping armour which seemd to get booed....i should have just said

hippy vs gardener 1: 0.9
guru vs gardener 1: 5 <-----most cost effective

hippy vs CG 1:0.7 <-----most cost effective
guru vs CG 1:1

ergo
hippies do armour strip. and hence could give some units(yobs) better ratios on wheelies geos than you would expect in certain circumstances.( eg round start during flak wars). as a posed to when yobs arent sweeping straight after the hippies....but that would be too easy.

maybe posting a quote will help you see what i was talking about, & would make it even easier to follow my point. although equally unrealted to the topic

No idea what you guys are talking about. Hippies 'armour damage' would be flakked by the gardeners in every BR - it wouldn't swing the yobs:wheelies ratio at all. Plus the fact that im pretty sure hippies themselves do enough health damage that they would distract any geo's they strip enough armor from.

Wrong,
There is a significant difference between between having 0.8 hippy on every wheelie(the average flakwar mob ratio) before the yobs fire, meaning there already stripped a bit.
Or,
Having 500k hippy's on 7m hostiles(barely any hippy stripping wheelies)

 

[Iamsmart]

That proves hippies do more armor damage than guru/yob/stuff, I'm pretty sure we knew that. It does not prove that it strips armor - You show no evidence that hippies don't do enough health damage to distract what they armor strip.

 

[willymchilybily]

although true i have no evidence of hippy armour stripping....hence i conceed this pontless spamming.....

it was the point of my first post and the example of tractor flaking old style bunkers that showed and indeed had I the br would have proved my point.....

although one final question... surely...if a gardener is stopped by a hippy at 1:0.9. where equally a CG with arguably 5 times the armour. (with referenc to a guru post previous) is stopped by a very similar ratio...couldnt one argue. that all that extra AD a hippy can do to allow it to stop a CG at similar ratio must still be fired at the flak. especially if you consider it being a pool of innocents being fired at and maybe just maybe strip some of the gradeners, and even geos (even if only 1- 5% target the geos. that is still potentially some armour damage beyond the health damage it can muster).

 

[Iamsmart]

I'm not pointlessly spamming - I could very well be wrong, in fact I probably am if this BR is indeed what it supposedly is.

And hippies stopping geo's via tractor flakking does not prove anything...

And yes - the extra AD is fired at flak. But in the same way with 10m rpgs vs 100m attack dogs+1m pa the pa's don't recieve the extra AD b/c the 100m attack dogs dont need all they recieve, the geo's don't recieve the extra ad the gardies dont need from the hippies.

 

[willymchilybily]

I'm not pointlessly spamming - I could very well be wrong, in fact I probably am if this BR is indeed what it supposedly is.

And hippies stopping geo's via tractor flakking does not prove anything...

And yes - the extra AD is fired at flak. But in the same way with 10m rpgs vs 100m attack dogs+1m pa the pa's don't recieve the extra AD b/c the 100m attack dogs dont need all they recieve, the geo's don't recieve the extra ad the gardies dont need from the hippies.

i agree 110%.....but in the pre guru flak wars. the only unit firing is hippy with yobs sweeping... so IF they do strip armour at all by any small amount you would see it at this stage, on wheelies when yobs sweep. and yobs may get marginally improved ratios. compared to those seen by the BR posted by razor...

I don't buy it. Yobs were getting 3/4:1 on wheelies at the beginning of this round.

....both me and nopjes we're trying to say is this could be infact because hippies do some armour stripping.
once they are vastly outnumbered. no ofc they dont. which is about the second you get a sweeper after yobs. or gurus, for almost every route.., they then become virtually obsolete as defence.

its unnoticed as they fire first 99% of the time unless you are a bunker.....hence why i used the bunker example....and also finished my original posted..

hippies are infact very useful in some situations...not so much now..

as bunkers now target innocents so you dont need the hippies for this use. and as no other route has units that clear flak before the hippy except maybe an sa player (who people dont often try to flak through) this ability gets forgotten and not used.


if tractor flak ever becomes big again maybe azzers 3rd fantasy branch will include a unit that gets a ratio similar to a guru and fires b4 the hippy...so once again people who know that hippies do strip armour can once again stop tractors flaking poms by stripping the geos through the flak after taking out most of the regular flak. useful to LastTick... or the old generic mass newsies may still be favoured by the less knowledgeable

 

[Razorwolf]

How on earth did this get to 4pages o.o we need more life in the forums so new threads will be started