Sincere Apology

Status
Not open for further replies.

Dax

Hydroponics Developer
Joined
Apr 22, 2009
Messages
3,126
Location
Northants, UK
Its no secret to what happened this afternoon, as Ive been told it has been well covered in #bush.
I dont want to delve into the act itself, if you are interested enough then you can go and find out.
To the point of my post though, this is a full apology to the ten players I left behind from Finale.
You were all helpful and worthy members to play alongside, and what has happened rather than improving the game by levelling the playing field vs rank 1, we have in fact given people one more reason NOT to play this game.
This was never my intention, I agreed to a planned and well notified switch of players between two alliances for a long lasting benefit. What has happened is I may of been part of a decision that has caused the disheartening of TWENTY few and far between players to the point of dropping this game.
I know two of these people as real life friends, and they are both gutted and disappointed that I allowed this to happen, and went along with it.
I feel I have discredited myself and damaged a game I thoroughly enjoy playing.
So again, my most solemn apologies to those 20 players for being a part of allowing this to happen. I am leaving my position in **** as a result. It was never about glory.
 

Alcibiades

Plant Geneticist
Joined
Dec 13, 2007
Messages
4,267
Location
Canada
For those of us who don't know, can someone give a short relatively unbiased explanation of WTF he is talking about?
 

WackyJacky

Head Gardener
Joined
Dec 14, 2007
Messages
274
Location
USA
Sure.

Bruce logged on this afternoon. After PMing DA for a bit he said "alright DA let's do it now" at which point I knew something bad was coming. Then someone said "wtf we just lost 5 members."

Low and behold Dax, DA, Bruce, dave, and another (and I think a few more were taken later - someone correct me if I am wrong) had split.

Bruce was supposedly offered leadership of C.U.N.T. He was (and still is?) supposed to win the round with this "super-alliance."

The rest of Finale (Bruce's old alliance, where I was) were left out to dry. A few of us who were lucky enough to be one, left and started a new alliance. The others were undoubtedly massed and bashed (as we were hit quite a bit, but were able to help each other out for the most part.) As for the 10 members of C.U.N.T that were kicked to make space for Bruce and his merry band, well who knows.

That about sums it up I think.
 

Alcibiades

Plant Geneticist
Joined
Dec 13, 2007
Messages
4,267
Location
Canada
All I can say is I'm glad i left C.U.N.T when I did :p

Stupid behaviour, but best of luck in their quest to rank 1.
 

TaO

Tree Surgeon
Joined
Dec 14, 2007
Messages
795
Location
The Hague
pssh wannabe Twigley..
Bruce, you fail
Dax, you fail

You say you feel terrible about what you did.. and yet you just sit around in C.U.N.T. like nothing has happened..

May the former C.U.N.T. and Finale members merge and take your alliance down!.


Disbanding and bashing your alliance is just for Twigley!
 

Ram

Head Gardener
Joined
Oct 12, 2008
Messages
462
I love how people griped about twigley doing this, then do it themselves.
How the shoe is on the other foot now...
 

Silence

Head Gardener
Joined
Dec 14, 2007
Messages
331
I love how people griped about twigley doing this, then do it themselves.
How the shoe is on the other foot now...

Well no. You are comparing quite different situations.

Twigley got flamed for joining the rank 1 alliance and POTENTIALLY eliminating support for helping the resistance (although he was sure that his alliance would not help, he was leader he must have known best)

Bruce left an alliance whereby only half were playing properly according to him, again as leader he knows best.

The two alliances merged in an attempt to try and get this round moving again.


So yes there is a big distinction between the two. If you cant see it you should go back and look again.

Dont make rash comments and try and fit them in with past events, it is unfair. It shows that you cannot make good observations and objective comments.


To reiterate because I think you will need it:
Bruce, tried to get the round moving again
Twigley, killed the round (but he assures us it was already dead, I was always sceptical but he *was* leader of his alliance after all)


All I can say is I'm glad i left C.U.N.T when I did :p

Stupid behaviour, but best of luck in their quest to rank 1.

Ohhh purrrrrrrleeeeeeeasssssssseeeeeeee thats such a silly comment with your 0 knowledge of the situation.

Yes you hurt my feelings :'(
 

Ram

Head Gardener
Joined
Oct 12, 2008
Messages
462
Bruce left an alliance whereby only half were playing properly according to him, again as leader he knows best.

It was an ftf alliance, how does he expect them to play....
 

Silence

Head Gardener
Joined
Dec 14, 2007
Messages
331
Bruce left an alliance whereby only half were playing properly according to him, again as leader he knows best.

It was an ftf alliance, how does he expect them to play....

Oh wait, alliances which are ftf demand no activity at all? Now you are generalising at all types of alliances fit a certain criteria, that there are no subjective differences between groups. Well there are. You generalise too much.

Still your comments as what can only be described as an officious bystander amuses me, you have *no* idea of the workings of that alliance yet you still comment!

Just let it go, you don’t have enough information. The leader and the group surrounding him who helps him lead know the most - so your comments are rather redundant!
 

Hobbezak

Garden Designer
Joined
Dec 14, 2007
Messages
894
Location
Antwerp, Belgium
Bruce left an alliance whereby only half were playing properly according to him, again as leader he knows best.

It was an ftf alliance, how does he expect them to play....

Obviously there's active ftf, and discworld-ftf. There's a world of difference between the 2.
I think CF made a brilliant quote on shipjumping: http://www.bushtarion.com/forums/showpost.php?p=41826&postcount=93

Although one could argue that a leader does have some kind of responsibility to his alliance.
 

Silence

Head Gardener
Joined
Dec 14, 2007
Messages
331
Bruce left an alliance whereby only half were playing properly according to him, again as leader he knows best.

It was an ftf alliance, how does he expect them to play....

Obviously there's active ftf, and discworld-ftf. There's a world of difference between the 2.
I think CF made a brilliant quote on shipjumping: http://www.bushtarion.com/forums/showpost.php?p=41826&postcount=93

Although one could argue that a leader does have some kind of responsibility to his alliance.

CFs comment on ship jumping was possible one of the most reasoned arguments I’ve ever read on these forums.

But I just want to pick up on your final comment and just expand a little upon it, as I felt that it was a good point. You accept the difference between DW ftf and contactable/active ftf. The responsibility of the contactable/active ftf leader is one where the extent of the responsibility to the alliance is that the active portion interests should remain paramount as they have fulfilled the criteria of the alliance.

So in a DW ftf alliance this would have been quite a bit more of a shady area, but in these circumstances it is justified as the members who were slacking were not doing what they had signed up for!

(it is quite obvious that when you are asked to be contactable it is implied that a certain level of activity is required - but then these days it is a must as the game has developed that way)
 

Hobbezak

Garden Designer
Joined
Dec 14, 2007
Messages
894
Location
Antwerp, Belgium
My only concern was that as a leader you have a certain responsibility to your members, also the inactive ones, in the sense that they should have a decently timed warning about what's going to happen (genre "Listen guys, we feel some of you are kind of slacking. We think there are more interesting things happening at the top, we want to be a part of that, so we're going to merge with C.U.N.T. at time X, giving you (for example 24h) time to get some plan. We hope you understand et bla bla bla").

It seems, but obviously I don't have any knowledge of what really happened, so correct me if I'm wrong, that the active guys just left the inactive guys hanging, which imho means the leader didn't live up to the responsibility he had to the inactive guys.
 

Dax

Hydroponics Developer
Joined
Apr 22, 2009
Messages
3,126
Location
Northants, UK
My only concern was that as a leader you have a certain responsibility to your members, also the inactive ones, in the sense that they should have a decently timed warning about what's going to happen (genre "Listen guys, we feel some of you are kind of slacking. We think there are more interesting things happening at the top, we want to be a part of that, so we're going to merge with C.U.N.T. at time X, giving you (for example 24h) time to get some plan. We hope you understand et bla bla bla").

It seems, but obviously I don't have any knowledge of what really happened, so correct me if I'm wrong, that the active guys just left the inactive guys hanging, which imho means the leader didn't live up to the responsibility he had to the inactive guys.

I had the original conversation with DA at around 3pm yesterday, then I had family commitments to go and partake in, then a spliff with two friends who were actually in Finale.
I was more or less guaranteed that the move would be well publicised inside the alliance, and that it would literally be a planned instantaneous switch. Then I get a text whilst at the pub with friends to make the switch - So I did. If I had the time to be at home, it would of been my duty as the 'voice' of Finale to go ahead and make the plan known. I will also add, there was no pillaging of my former members. At least not on my part anyway. I dont have much more to say on the situation, because it ended up looking alot worse than it was meant to.
 

Dark_Angel

Landscape Designer
Super Moderator
Community Operator
Joined
Jan 11, 2008
Messages
1,978
Location
UK
Disbanding and bashing your alliance is just for Twigley!


Don't make facts up just to help your comparison with Twigley. Ex finale/C.U.N.T were not bashed. Not one of them received inc from us (In fact most who had inc after the merger had inc because sour ex-members chose to jump on #bushtarion and tell the world - prompting substantial inc for themselves from other top 5 alliances).

This was not a malicious move on behalf of those involved. The dev multplier issue made the remaining 2 months of this round look particularly grim. The decision to do this was based on the hope that it could shake things up a bit.

The decision was only made because it was agreed the 10 players who were left behind in Finale+C.U.N.T were either "FTF" and had specified this when joining - or were generally just playing "FTF" - I.e logging in now and again and sending the odd defence. Thus they're better off in a lower ranking alliance anyway. (Admittedly a couple slightly more ftw players may have been left in the cold, but generally the right call was made on who to take, based on activity/reliability)

This move may not be a round changer - but as it stood Finale and c.u.n.t were operating very poorly - and were no match whatsoever for OP, or anyone else for that matter.

In my mind this was always going to be a case of damned if you do, damned if you don't. This reasoning is being provided to set facts straight.
 

Cheese

Tree Surgeon
Joined
Dec 15, 2007
Messages
698
Ok for you guys to do it but not ok when twigs did pretty much the same thing.

ROFL.
 

Twigley

Hydroponics Developer
Joined
Dec 14, 2007
Messages
2,694
Location
UK
Stop talking about me.
:/

Also i lolled when i saw it happen and especially who did it.
 

Davs

Garden Designer
Joined
Dec 16, 2007
Messages
948
Location
England
My respect towards Dax is unaffected, for actually manning up and apologising - I just hope that those affected take as sincerely as I believe it was meant.

Silence, you seem to be implying that only the leaders have enough knowledge to comment. If you actually mean this you really do sicken me. As Hobbe said, leaders have a responsibility to keep their members informed on major events with regards to the future of their alliance. So the concept of "leader knows best" I find to be very very wrong. Yes, in this situation it appears to be the case, but it really shouldn't have been.

Obviously, I have no knowledge of what happened, but from reading the posts in here this is the opinion I've adopted. My apologies if I misunderstood, or inferred things that weren't there to be inferred from your post.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top