• Those wishing to contribute to the game by making suggestions (both small and large) should read the following before doing so.

    Bushtarion largely runs completely automatically, and has been designed intentionally to be as self-maintaining as possible, with mechanics and balance considered at a completed point.

    Please do not spend large amounts of time coming up with complex suggestions in the hope that they will be read and possibly implemented in the future, unless you just enjoy the discussion, theory-craft, and such.

    The most likely changes will be rules-changes, specific number-tweaks to units, techs, and similar sorts of changes, and only if a large community consensus is reached as "proof" that a change would, overall, be an improvement, and are more likely to be done in batches, occassionally, not as a regular thing.

Monopoly Rule

argh

Beginner
Joined
Jan 26, 2011
Messages
1
Hey, first time on the forums. third round of playing.

Monopoly's are policed by the government.
Our alliances are basically a conglomeration of smaller companies. A monopoly by this alliance in the game can be treated the same way. If an alliance gets to have over 10% (example%) of the games total points it has to be broken up. This would keep the top 20 players every round from keeping each other safe and hoard seeds until each of those 20 players has more points than all the other alliances member put together.

Just a though, wonder if it is a good idea....or just let the flaming begin.

Also, if the attacker would lose the attack, he should lose land to the defender. That i do expect flaming on. again though just ideas for the game.

Thanks,
Argh
 

Enrico

Tree Surgeon
Joined
Dec 14, 2007
Messages
518
I will make a short and a long answer.

Short: No its not a good idea.

Long: This would mean punishing players for reaching the top, which is counter intuitive in a game like this. Secondly, when/if some ally grows this large, they are mostly taken out of the equation due to lack of targets. I'm not even sure what your suggestion is meant to accomplish? Is there a problem that the winning alliance outgrows all the smaller allys? Why is this a problem?


But I will leave the flames simmering for now :p
 

No-Dachi

Official Helper
Joined
Dec 15, 2007
Messages
975
Location
Oslo, Norway
You make two suggestions, and I'll address the latter first. I think I know where you'd like the game to go with this - encouraging more land fluctations, making sure people cannot hide behind the 'walls' of their alliance and attack as much as they want because they know they're at the top. However, what would happen, especially in this game where you can grow quite well without attacking, is that people would a) be more reluctant to attack, hence stagnating the game, and b) attack in large numbers to make sure they win. In a game where attacking was the main sort of gaining 'points', and acres/roids/farms were just a small addition to what makes or breaks a winner this would probably work quite well, but I'm afraid this game, and particularly it's player base is not suited for anything that makes having a fair fight less likely to happen.

As for the monopoly rule, you'd have to consider what it is to achieve? First of all, it breaks up bonds and ties between friends which want to play together, but I guess you could make players form (or be assigned to) a 4 man block at the beginning of the round, and only have these blocks fluctate. Secondly, there's a problem with the timing of this, because whoever is online at the time of change will see who leaves the ally, and therefor being able to take advantage of them being placed in a smaller alliance. So should it be random, or happening at a set interval? And by rearrenging the top ally, you'd create a ripple throughout the rankings, always forcing someone down. I guess this would be partially negated by having a block of people being moved, but to counter it the block would have to be contactable, and cover all timezones - pretty harsh demands for four people. You'd also have to consider that you cannot move rank 1 into a rank 15 ally, as he'd be dead within the hour. The final problem is that it removes the contingency in the game - and if you've played well and had the top rank for the last weeks, it would totally and utterly suck to be thrown into a rank 15 alliance, and ass-raped an hour before the end.

That being said, if you did have clusters of four, or maybe six, and up the alliance size to 30 to allow for five different groups of people, and implement a voting system for electing the alliance leader, and having each HQ develop itself (e.g. no donations needed, troops being bought at a regular interval), you might be onto something. It would definitely make for lot of new contacts being made, and easier for new players to get into the inner circle of the top alliances. But there's the question of how often, and to whom this is to occour. And of course the question or statement that kills all suggestions, and I'll just put it out there as it's bound to come in a post or two anyway: "the current player base is too small for such a change."

:)
 

LuckySports

Landscape Designer
Joined
Jul 7, 2008
Messages
1,243
Location
Nonya
Well that covers pretty much everything I wanted to say except..

Why does everyone want to punish the top just for being the top? If you really want to stop 1 alliance from overtaking every other alliance by so much, get a resistance together, and force them to participate.. It has happened successfully in the past (rarely.. but it has happened) and do it before they get too far ahead..
 

willymchilybily

Landscape Designer
Joined
Dec 14, 2007
Messages
1,418
Location
uk
nodachi's views, on your second suggestion, perfectly explain why although the suggestion might work in other games. in the game of bushtarion land is such an important resource that making it possible to lose if you get defended against would stagnate attacking greatly. especially early round flak wars.

also balance is ****ed too. some routes keep land so much easier (eg pom) i know one pom i have been trying to land on most of the time this round. and only succeeded twice. if his AR is high enough he is unlandable with his nap defence (and i am arsonist). therefore all those who try it under your suggestion would donate him land making him a better target but also just as hard to land....so more would try and fail.

also resistance would never happen as even if the alliance loses a few land here and thier. if they stop 90% of these small lowbie incomings they would rake in the land compared to what they lose.


as for the other suggestion. its gonna get a no because of the same reason random alliances gets a no. Playing with people you dont know... even no-dachi's suggestion..its only really applicable to existing player. or groups of new players. individual new players may be put off by having 3 other randoms they are stuck to for the entire round (who may be new too or randomly quit after testing the water, and only get 10 acres all round). or be forced to play solo and never see the main part of the game...allied play.
 

Walking_Death

Harvester
Joined
Jun 28, 2009
Messages
212
Hey, first time on the forums. third round of playing.

Monopoly's are policed by the government.
Our alliances are basically a conglomeration of smaller companies. A monopoly by this alliance in the game can be treated the same way. If an alliance gets to have over 10% (example%) of the games total points it has to be broken up. This would keep the top 20 players every round from keeping each other safe and hoard seeds until each of those 20 players has more points than all the other alliances member put together.

Just a though, wonder if it is a good idea....or just let the flaming begin.

Also, if the attacker would lose the attack, he should lose land to the defender. That i do expect flaming on. again though just ideas for the game.

Thanks,
Argh

I suggested something like this. It didn't go so well.
 

timtadams

Landscape Designer
Joined
Sep 9, 2008
Messages
2,260
Location
Australia
Well that covers pretty much everything I wanted to say except..

Why does everyone want to punish the top just for being the top? If you really want to stop 1 alliance from overtaking every other alliance by so much, get a resistance together, and force them to participate.. It has happened successfully in the past (rarely.. but it has happened) and do it before they get too far ahead..

They dont want to punish the top players, just let other have a chance of making the top.

It doesnt matter as far as im concerned. Rank 3 is where its at ;)
 

willymchilybily

Landscape Designer
Joined
Dec 14, 2007
Messages
1,418
Location
uk
Well that covers pretty much everything I wanted to say except..

Why does everyone want to punish the top just for being the top? If you really want to stop 1 alliance from overtaking every other alliance by so much, get a resistance together, and force them to participate.. It has happened successfully in the past (rarely.. but it has happened) and do it before they get too far ahead..

They dont want to punish the top players, just let other have a chance of making the top.

It doesnt matter as far as im concerned. Rank 3 is where its at ;)

the flaw is if one alliance is willing to put the work in to win the round in 5 days. no matter how you change the system. those people will always try harder than the others. or find a way round it.

this idea for example. is punishing (if not by design) those that take a lead. by splitting up an alliance that gains "too much" lead. they work hard for that lead. only to be punished for it. to give people trying less hard a chance, or people with less knowledge and activity that get poorer starts a chance? why?


tbh IF YOU want a go at winning, make a name for your self, by doing the best you can do in the alliance you are in. when suddenly some good players that didnt quite make rank 1 but Are in a rank 2 or 3 alliance are hitting lower down, and they see this awsome player always defending and defending well against thier attack, they will think wow we should recruit him/her next round (or b4 if u jump ship). Then suddenly the following round you are helping an alliance that has a better potential to win and get noticed by more people higher up the 'i want to win' food chain. And eventually you get to play with other people that want to win enough they put in as much effort as you.

its how it goes. look at lilow this round. i spoke to her 2 rounds back when in #prest. Thats the first time i had spoke to her & had seen her public profile on her ingame id's maybe 1-2 rounds before. But soo many of the player base considered experienced, and who know thier stuff and whose opinion i value, commented at how good she was, because they have seen first hand what that player can do defending against them some oe previously ffew may have even noticed if they hadnt directly played with her. also like yochoko, i hadnt heard of before a few rounds back but she is another awsome new/ish player, active and good.

You dont win rounds by changing the system you win rounds by playing well and actively, and making the difference to the group you are in, and doing so noticably enough to have people want you with them that next peg up the food chain.

right now i know a few players i met in discworld. rarely considered a FTW alliance. but i noticed them when i played thier as good players. and im playing with one of them next round (ftf). and i know several of them have been in a winning alliance, so even the alliance you are in now if low ranked, or not could have an old school pro hiding away, or some one who is good but not in the best alliance to show off thier activity and knowledge, and you can get noticed by playing well, and people will rather play with you than against you. thats how you get to an alliance with other people willing to try as hard as you. and you also then garentee you have the knowledge and experience to play at that level.


any sugggestion to make it easier for others to win rank one beside those that put in the most effort is riddiculous. it makes it harder for those that try hardest to win rank one. it makes it more random, and luck based. not "skill" (activity/contactability/knowledge/desire/ability)
 

Dax

Hydroponics Developer
Joined
Apr 22, 2009
Messages
3,126
Location
Northants, UK
I swear I said we should draw the line at 'this idea won't work'?
Maybe over-elaborating on a point we have all made will make it clearer? Lawl.
 

LuckySports

Landscape Designer
Joined
Jul 7, 2008
Messages
1,243
Location
Nonya
Willy makes a lot of points.. ^_^ Some of the players that we recruited in the ally last round were people that defended against us often and intelligently. I'll sooner join an ally with someone that I have seen in action, than someone whose exploits I have only heard about.
 

timtadams

Landscape Designer
Joined
Sep 9, 2008
Messages
2,260
Location
Australia
Well that covers pretty much everything I wanted to say except..

Why does everyone want to punish the top just for being the top? If you really want to stop 1 alliance from overtaking every other alliance by so much, get a resistance together, and force them to participate.. It has happened successfully in the past (rarely.. but it has happened) and do it before they get too far ahead..

They dont want to punish the top players, just let other have a chance of making the top.

It doesnt matter as far as im concerned. Rank 3 is where its at ;)

the flaw is if one alliance is willing to put the work in to win the round in 5 days. no matter how you change the system. those people will always try harder than the others. or find a way round it.

this idea for example. is punishing (if not by design) those that take a lead. by splitting up an alliance that gains "too much" lead. they work hard for that lead. only to be punished for it. to give people trying less hard a chance, or people with less knowledge and activity that get poorer starts a chance? why?


tbh IF YOU want a go at winning, make a name for your self, by doing the best you can do in the alliance you are in. <snip>

well, I dont support the suggestion, i was just letting LuckySports know that people dont suggest this as punishment, rather a means to bring back competition for rank 1.

This i dont care about. If rank one is gone, then battle for rank two, and so on. Of course, this is coming from someone who doesnt give a hoot about portal.

And no, I dont want a chance at winning :p But im guessing that was a general statement aimed at all those that support this suggestion.
 

LuckySports

Landscape Designer
Joined
Jul 7, 2008
Messages
1,243
Location
Nonya
If people want a chance at making the top, they need to put in the effort. You can do it without being contactable 24/7 or active 14+ hrs a day.. It just takes a smart route choice, good unit setup, and an alliance that is willing to fight.

It is easier if your active and contactable though.. ^_^
 

No-Dachi

Official Helper
Joined
Dec 15, 2007
Messages
975
Location
Oslo, Norway
And you need to find an alliance that allows you to not be 24/7 contactable. That's where the problem lies.
 

Dax

Hydroponics Developer
Joined
Apr 22, 2009
Messages
3,126
Location
Northants, UK
And you need to find an alliance that allows you to not be 24/7 contactable. That's where the problem lies.

Only retarded people request someone to be available at the tip of a hat at all times of day for a game. I'll hold this opinion forever.
The best players of this game are mostly U/C these days. You'll never be a 'great' player by having a phone next to you all day long.
 

LuckySports

Landscape Designer
Joined
Jul 7, 2008
Messages
1,243
Location
Nonya
And you need to find an alliance that allows you to not be 24/7 contactable. That's where the problem lies.

Most alliances don't require it..

Infact, in Klepto this last round, we had 3-4 people that didn't even have phone numbers posted..

granted.. that was after we had already won, so that probably doesn't apply huh?

Most alliances rank 2 or lower don't require everyone to be contactable 24/7.
 

No-Dachi

Official Helper
Joined
Dec 15, 2007
Messages
975
Location
Oslo, Norway
By "the top" I assumed you meant the winning alliance, and assuming we're still speaking of winning alliances I've yet to see an alliance that aims to win that will take in members who are not well known with a label that says "uncontacable from X-Y every day". If you've already made your name in this game you can get away with most things, but then you've probably already "made the top", and you're out of the group we're discussing.
 

LuckySports

Landscape Designer
Joined
Jul 7, 2008
Messages
1,243
Location
Nonya
By top I mean portal in score, Completely possible when you have UC times, known or not.. You don't have to make it public who you are in-game.

Usually, when I'm planning routes pre-round, I'll stick UC people in routes that are less-likely to be rushed... TL, SA, Rangers, Dragons..

That way, Its not a worry.. ^_^ If they get massed and then zeroed, well that sucks..
 

Alvestein

Garden Designer
Joined
Dec 15, 2007
Messages
809
And you need to find an alliance that allows you to not be 24/7 contactable. That's where the problem lies.

Most alliances don't require it..

Infact, in Klepto this last round, we had 3-4 people that didn't even have phone numbers posted..

granted.. that was after we had already won, so that probably doesn't apply huh?

Most alliances rank 2 or lower don't require everyone to be contactable 24/7.

that's because rank 2 or lower aren't ftw nowadays :p
 
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