• Those wishing to contribute to the game by making suggestions (both small and large) should read the following before doing so.

    Bushtarion largely runs completely automatically, and has been designed intentionally to be as self-maintaining as possible, with mechanics and balance considered at a completed point.

    Please do not spend large amounts of time coming up with complex suggestions in the hope that they will be read and possibly implemented in the future, unless you just enjoy the discussion, theory-craft, and such.

    The most likely changes will be rules-changes, specific number-tweaks to units, techs, and similar sorts of changes, and only if a large community consensus is reached as "proof" that a change would, overall, be an improvement, and are more likely to be done in batches, occassionally, not as a regular thing.

Insurance Changes

Dax

Hydroponics Developer
Joined
Apr 22, 2009
Messages
3,126
Location
Northants, UK
Right, so many ideas have been thrown around recently about how this game could be brought back to competitiveness, whilst being as fair as needed for newer players, and to make aimless killing less damaging.
I propose insurance goes to 70%.
However, on these terms:
- The normal insurance/injury rate of 20% returns at the current timings. So you get a chunk back 14/15 ticks after dying/losing staff, and the other 50% returns in 24hrs. This discourages (not eliminates) suiciding on high ranks for cheap bounty earning at lower ranks, and attacking people for no monetary gain, whilst keeping the function of attacking to deprive an alliance of one player, if only temporarily. Any good alliance can capitalise upon 24hrs of an alliance being without 5/6 players at 20% of their original score.

- The repeat attack modifier in the bounty modification should be adjusted so the time before full bounty can be earned is much later than it is currently (say, a week), to prevent players being used as 'bounty cash cows'. This means more emphasis is placed upon land gaining, and bounty hunting, to rise above everyone else. The 70% insurance rate helps promote damaging your opponents, but not to the extent that they have nothing left afterwards. At 70%, damaging someone is possible, but that player won't be totally flattened. If alliances are looking to do maximum damage, then it's time to grow the cojones to use the 'war' function.

- Bounty gained from attacking somebody with more than two players worth more than 400% of the target's total defending value is reduced to 5%. This is to discourage mass bashing on one tick. Obviously this won't eliminate this tactic, but it will make it alot less frequent, and will encourage tactical thinking on the part of larger alliances looking for land.

- Bounty rates on all staff types are to be the same as for lethal troops. This is to encourage bounty hunting the likes of Protestor players, SGT massers, SD massers, and INN massers so bounty hunting becomes valid for all styles of attackers, whilst discouraging tactics such as SGT, Gardie & SD massing.

- Insurance for bribed staff is to become zilch, whereas I've had staff I have bribed been covered by insurance before, and I've used it as a minor source of income early in the round {bribing SGT/spikes, and letting them get killed for free insurance}.

- As insurance has been raised, then obviously solos would gain a massive unfair advantage over alliance players with this change. Here, AR drop rates would need to be increased, in line with the fact that 70% of losses would return, instead of 20%, so AR is mostly only important to stop bashing before the 24hr wait for the remaining 50% to return. Ideally it would be changed enough so that you are kept relatively safe during the time between the 20% and 50% of losses returning, but after that it drops significantly faster.

I am aware alot of these concepts are maybe a tad controversial, but I feel that too much of this game is now based upon the worry that you will become totally useless if an attack or defence goes tits up, and you lose your collection of staff.
Emphasis on bounty hunting and land stealing, whilst discouraging lowly tactics such as bashing and repeat attacking, should hopefully solve alot of this issue.
Feel free to help me out with more suggestions/alterations, and of course to pick out things I haven't fully thought through. I did only spend 15/20 minutes typing this up from feedback I've seen across multiple forum threads.
 
Last edited:

LuckySports

Landscape Designer
Joined
Jul 7, 2008
Messages
1,243
Location
Nonya
Right, so many ideas have been thrown around recently about how this game could be brought back to competitiveness, whilst being as fair as needed for newer players, and to make aimless killing less damaging.
I propose insurance goes to 70%.
However, on these terms:
- The normal insurance/injury rate of 20% returns at the current timings. So you get a chunk back 14/15 ticks after dying/losing staff, and the other 50% returns in 24hrs. This discourages (not eliminates) suiciding on high ranks for cheap bounty earning at lower ranks, and attacking people for no monetary gain, whilst keeping the function of attacking to deprive an alliance of one player, if only temporarily. Any good alliance can capitalise upon 24hrs of an alliance being without 5/6 players at 20% of their original score.



If you make it where you only get the original 20% (or less) insurance on an attack, it will discourage suiciding, but will still encourage defense..


- Bounty rates on all staff types are to be the same as for lethal troops. This is to encourage bounty hunting the likes of Protestor players, SGT massers, SD massers, and INN massers so bounty hunting becomes valid for all styles of attackers, whilst discouraging tactics such as SGT, Gardie & SD massing.

Not sure this will work out, as It will encourage bashing of undeveloped players, also, the reason the bounty is low for them is because they can't really fight back, no honor in killing something/one that can't defend themself.. I'd rather see people mass SD than the bashing such a rule would promote.


- Bounty gained from attacking somebody with more than two players worth more than 400% of the target's total defending value is reduced to 5%. This is to discourage mass bashing on one tick. Obviously this won't eliminate this tactic, but it will make it alot less frequent, and will encourage tactical thinking on the part of larger alliances looking for land.

Isn't this already kind of in effect? Bounty is reduced the larger you are than an opponent. The more people you have on 1 tick = the higher the "attacking" score = the lower the bounty.. It doesn't discourage it at all.. Ask any rank 2-6 alliance :p
 

FeR

Harvester
Joined
Dec 14, 2007
Messages
130
Location
Buenos Aires - Argentina
- Bounty gained from attacking somebody with more than two players worth more than 400% of the target's total defending value is reduced to 5%. This is to discourage mass bashing on one tick. Obviously this won't eliminate this tactic, but it will make it alot less frequent, and will encourage tactical thinking on the part of larger alliances looking for land.

Isn't this already kind of in effect? Bounty is reduced the larger you are than an opponent. The more people you have on 1 tick = the higher the "attacking" score = the lower the bounty.. It doesn't discourage it at all.. Ask any rank 2-6 alliance :p

I think he is talking about attacking someone highly bigger than you with other 25 ppl and still get nice bounty.
 

Dax

Hydroponics Developer
Joined
Apr 22, 2009
Messages
3,126
Location
Northants, UK
If you make it where you only get the original 20% (or less) insurance on an attack, it will discourage suiciding, but will still encourage defense..

This would be unfair. If defenders only got the insurance boost, then the rate of people attacking wouldn't rise. It is to encourage battle reports, not to stunt them like your suggest would.

Not sure this will work out, as It will encourage bashing of undeveloped players, also, the reason the bounty is low for them is because they can't really fight back, no honor in killing something/one that can't defend themself.. I'd rather see people mass SD than the bashing such a rule would promote.

But 70% insurance would be in place. You can't flatten people in the same way as you could before - There is less consequence to those on the receiving end as there would be with this particular rule being implemented now.


Isn't this already kind of in effect? Bounty is reduced the larger you are than an opponent. The more people you have on 1 tick = the higher the "attacking" score = the lower the bounty.. It doesn't discourage it at all.. Ask any rank 2-6 alliance :p

Not to the extent that I am suggesting. I want there to be an indefinite loss of bounty; Whereas at the moment bounty is still earnt on a ridiculous scale when attacking. I may even consider changing this value to nil, so it becomes an even less attractive idea to use such tactics.
Like I said, it will discourage this sort of behaviour, but you can never eradicate it without making it illegal. There needs to be bigger punishments for using dishonourable tactics than there are currently.
 

willymchilybily

Landscape Designer
Joined
Dec 14, 2007
Messages
1,418
Location
uk
one consideration is resistance. as only one alliance can declare war on another at a time. how will a resistance take down an allaince that has ammassed more land. maybe 24 hrs isnt long enough on that remaining insurance pay back. after all the resistance normally only manages a handful of attacks a night in general unless they go very well. it may not be long enough to wipe them and get the acres.

sometimes it takes days or weeks to get that target that is contactable and active. if they have ammassed bounty but have no land killing them will also be tidious and infinitely slow. (although if allied u can declare war, but it kind of tips off the enemy if ou wish to rush)
 

Dax

Hydroponics Developer
Joined
Apr 22, 2009
Messages
3,126
Location
Northants, UK
one consideration is resistance. as only one alliance can declare war on another at a time. how will a resistance take down an allaince that has ammassed more land. maybe 24 hrs isnt long enough on that remaining insurance pay back. after all the resistance normally only manages a handful of attacks a night in general unless they go very well. it may not be long enough to wipe them and get the acres.

sometimes it takes days or weeks to get that target that is contactable and active. if they have ammassed bounty but have no land killing them will also be tidious and infinitely slow. (although if allied u can declare war, but it kind of tips off the enemy if ou wish to rush)

The simple solution to this would be to add to the war function, where alliances adding up to a certain percentage can declare war on a single alliance.
All the same, I believe the resistance would be far more fun, and could encompass far more players with this new system. Even new players could send along the odd attack, and enjoy a big battle report they usually wouldn't take part in for fear of losing all their staff.
There are obviously going to be downsides to this suggestion, I expected that, but the pros will definitely outweigh them. This game will become far more hands-on, and less about scorequeening and worrying about losing troops. This is all I aim to achieve with this suggestion. :)
 

CFalcon

Official Helper
Joined
Dec 14, 2007
Messages
680
Location
Kent UK
Agree completely with this suggestion.

Lesser consequences for battles will encourage more battles, and hence make the game more fun. It will also limit rage-quitting after losing all your hard earned work, and make high activity less of a necessity.

Approve!
 

Dax

Hydroponics Developer
Joined
Apr 22, 2009
Messages
3,126
Location
Northants, UK
Thanks CF.

But I've had alot of queries regarding the long-term consequences of this change.
The simple answer is, there doesn't need to be any. This change is to help lower people learn about the genuinely fun parts of Bushtarion, not just being killed and land-raped over and over. When people have troops available, they can find out what is fun about this game for people even in the top100 as the rounds go now.
If the people at the bottom are happy campers, then the people at the top can play competitively and happily, too. You need the entire land chain to be entertained - Not just the top. This idea highlights that.
Obviously if the playerbase grows exponentially over 4/5 rounds, then this will have to be lowered, so it doesn't create a Communist-style game where all have troops all the time, and consequences have to slowly be re-introduced - But by this point the game will of gained far more layers of player-types again like the old days. :)
 

Dax

Hydroponics Developer
Joined
Apr 22, 2009
Messages
3,126
Location
Northants, UK
I prefer the insurance/bounty suggestion I made here: http://www.bushtarion.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4574

The only issue I can pick with yours is that other things affected by the change aren't entirely considered. Mine isn't totally in-depth, but I've outlined the general idea of my suggestion, and I've spoken with Azzer about whether it's possible to be implemented.
If your implication is that I stole your idea, you'd be very wrong. My suggestion does differ from yours significantly enough to be classed as my own idea. I say my idea, but it's more compiled from people's reactions to other suggestions of recent, and I've bundled it with a few of my ideals to hopefully bring business and competitiveness back to this game.
70% insurance rates, alongside the time between receiving the bulk of the reimbursement, means that there are still consequences to killing yourself/being killed {especially if you are solo}, but you will get alot of it back so you can learn from your mistakes, and hop back on the learning train.
I couldn't consider anything below 60% would actually allow such an ideal to work.
Not saying yours is a bad idea, but I will say I've thought alot about newer people being more benefited by this change, because getting new players in and staying in, whilst maintaining the current status quo up top to keep current players around, will significantly benefit business for Azzer.
 
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