• Those wishing to contribute to the game by making suggestions (both small and large) should read the following before doing so.

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    Please do not spend large amounts of time coming up with complex suggestions in the hope that they will be read and possibly implemented in the future, unless you just enjoy the discussion, theory-craft, and such.

    The most likely changes will be rules-changes, specific number-tweaks to units, techs, and similar sorts of changes, and only if a large community consensus is reached as "proof" that a change would, overall, be an improvement, and are more likely to be done in batches, occassionally, not as a regular thing.

10 man allies next round

10 man allies next round

  • I agree

    Votes: 26 57.8%
  • I kinda agree but a bit more than 10

    Votes: 7 15.6%
  • I like 20

    Votes: 12 26.7%

  • Total voters
    45
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timthetyrant

Head Gardener
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Messages
388
what if you can have an option of being a 10(maybe15) man alliance or the 20 man alliance. Ofc what you choose will be locked as soon as the decision is made. There would have to be something to entice ppl to a smaller alliance, say decreasing the cost and time of alliance devs and alliance units by half or more. this would give a serious advantage at the start of the round, and with it you could gain 1st spot and maybe keep it (if you are awesome). But then as the round progresses, 20 man alliances would make a comeback.
Ofc during the midround you would have a chance that the small alliances would disband and reform into 20, but then they would have a problem as they can only see ETA 3 incoming, and anyone paying attention could roll them.
Then you also have the problem on ranking alliances cause it would be unfair if the 10 man alliance has the top 10 spots, but are rank 2 because the 20 man alliance has more score as it has more ppl. So then maybe add another stat(the final ranking stat) which is the average score of each member.

Im sure someone would find a way to get both though :(
 

tobapopalos

Hydroponics Developer
Joined
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2,759
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Manchester
And toby - If the majority of the playerbase wants 10 member alliances and thinks it would be best, I should hope just because he doesn't like it he wouldn't say no - Just like he did with H/F.

The majority of the playerbase, or the majority of the active forum users? They aren't the same. And let's be honest, a lot of the playerbase's opinions really aren't reliable when it comes to game mechanics.
 

Iamsmart

Landscape Designer
Joined
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Messages
1,668
It's the only sample he can get - And I was comparing it to a specific example in recent times.

Just because it's not a full sample doesn't mean it's incorrect. Nor does it mean it should be disregarded.
 

Changer

Head Gardener
Joined
Dec 14, 2007
Messages
475
Location
London
You also need to consider the effect on the rest of the playerbase. The majority of people do not play for the win atm. Would 10 man alliances make playing in an alliance at a lower level alot harder?

Can't see why. More "big" alliances fighting amongst themselves ultimately means less bashing of smaller alliances?

Ignorance at its very best. Do you really think FTW alliances are just going to leave the lower ranked alliances alone? Are you as naive as that?

And Ram, it was changed to 15 man alliances for 1 round ( round 28 ) and then changed back the very next round because it just didn't work.

Willy sums it up pretty well. The burnout is horrific with smaller alliances. For lower ranked alliances it will be even worse, since there aren't going to be many active players there, leaving most of the burden for one or two people.

I'm not being ignorant. More fights between the top 5 generally means less time for fighting the lower ranks. I made no attempt to claim the attacks would cease altogether, that would be naive. Don't put words in my mouth.

If there is constant warring between ranks 1-5, that'll mean leaders/officers have to consider being countered by an enemy if they're all out massing some poor sods down at rank 9. That'll be a real concern. Effort might be far better placed killing off an actual competitor.


as a member of discworld for a few round let me tell you how it works before you deniy your ability to be naive. the top alliances dont fight eachother until they absoloutly have to.

they gang rape lower alliances. and hit them mercilessly. and if one alliance looks to be overtaking another etc or there is someone well ahead. the small alliances ranks 2-4 decide, we need to land up all worktogether 'viva la resistance'.

the outcome is they dont hit eachother and they hit only lower ranked alliances. causing the top to starve through lack of targets, any attack from the top is countered so the reistance can gain a decent size to be able to take down rank one. i DO NOT deniy the potential for fighting between top 4 ranks. but i do say any resistance always forces those in ranks 2-4 to rape and pillage the smaller allies.

this happens anyway, but when you make it 3-4 alliances resisting (30-40players) the few lower alliances are still facing the same odds as if it were 2 alliances resisting (20+20 = 40) except its not 40 vs 20 inacives its 40 vs 10 inactives.

It may cause more fighting at the top. but the knock on bashing at the lower levels is horrifc. I dont just think azzer changed it back after 1 round because it was a kink in the system. I think he probably lost a significant amount of player base that round.

NO other changes have been so detrimental to the game that they were undone the following round.....But if you're so new to this game or too ignorant to remeber that fateful round. Go ahead bring it on. and see how horribly shitty it is playing in a 10man alliance. be my guest as ill be solo for that round no matter what. and it will make it much easier to get high ranked. So be my guest. then finally people will stop suggesting this god damn awful idea.

no offence cheese for the suggestion. when it was originally suggested before it was met with open arms because it does have points which you think... well that makes sense more allainces more infighting. better for all. it simply isnt the case. May i suggest a public private world in which everyone can test this 10man allaince idea out and see just how bad it is. so it isnt suggested for another few rounds. a 200 slot private world. allies and solos allowed alike. Then hopefully more people will have viewpoints on the matter based on experience, not theoretical hypothesis

Anyone that doesnt think this is the case, is just trying to fool themselves. Yes, the suggestion may add 1 or 2 extra ftw alliances each round, and more challenge. But down the lower ranks, its will only take 2 or 3 people to attack an alliance at their 30% and they will become unstoppable. People struggle enough as it is to cover a few massive IDs in lower alliances, now imagine trying to do this with half the members. It would be impossible.
 

Azzer

Administrator
Staff member
Administrator
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Dec 13, 2007
Messages
1,215
The smaller alliances have been tried and tested. They did not increase competition/reduce the "difference" in rank 1 to the rest of the game (ultimately), merely altered what it required to achieve the same thing (and increased burnout). But simultaneously, it made life a lot harder, for a lot more players than merely the top few ranks, because of the sheer activity required to always guarantee at least a couple of members online to help with defenses (remember the average player doesn't volunteer their phone number to be woken at any time to get online for defence, the average player accepts losing a battle while offline as part of the game, and hopefully tries to rebuild when back online).

If you are all simply seeking ways to help keep competitiveness, then I think you need to be looking at things that "kick in" when one alliance STARTS the breakway, and/or things to aid the organisation of "resistances" if people aren't able to organise them themselves with current systems anymore (eg "when a rank 1 alliance takes a 25% score lead over the rank 2, their members become automatically public" "When a rank 1 alliance takes an xxx% lead over rank 2, system YYYY kicks in" or whatever).
 

Dimitar

Landscape Designer
Joined
Dec 17, 2008
Messages
2,388
I don't know.. but smaller groups = more groups. And more groups = more war.

This can really make the game a lot more fun. We could see smaller alliances fighting each other constantly instead of just idling.

I remember times when two of the bottom alliances would play together to kill the rank 10 alliance or so, alliance wars on the second page of the list and so on. And imo, this is what bush is all about
 

Iamsmart

Landscape Designer
Joined
Apr 26, 2008
Messages
1,668
Changer, less members also means less people will be sending at the smaller alliance at the same time...your point doesn't exactly make much sense.
 

Changer

Head Gardener
Joined
Dec 14, 2007
Messages
475
Location
London
There will still be the same amount of people sending at smaller alliances. Just they will have alot less members to cover it with.

Anyway, pointless discussion, never going to happen.

/thread
 

Iamsmart

Landscape Designer
Joined
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Messages
1,668
...That doesn't make sense.

There are half the members in your allliance.

Therefore half as many will send.

And the smaller alliances have half as many members

Seems balanced to me?
 

timthetyrant

Head Gardener
Joined
Sep 30, 2008
Messages
388
maybe if everone went solo instead of being allied. that way there would be more warring, and there wouldnt be many mass attacks as there wouldnt be as much organisation. and there would be a lot more competition between ranks.
 

Steve_God

Official Helper
Joined
Dec 15, 2007
Messages
1,085
Location
Cheshire, England
...That doesn't make sense.

There are half the members in your allliance.

Therefore half as many will send.

And the smaller alliances have half as many members

Seems balanced to me?
Scenario 1 (20 Member allies)
- Rank 3 ally attacks Rank 7 ally.
- Rank 3 has 10 members online, Rank 7 has 4 members online
- Rank 7 has 2 people out attacking with their mobs unavailable, leaving 2 people to organise and send defence.
- Rank 7 can get enough real and fakes in place to put off some of the attacks, without huge losses.

Scenario 2 (10 Member allies)
- Rank 3 ally attacks Rank 7 ally.
- Rank 3 has 5 members online, Rank 7 has 2 members online
- Rank 7 has 1 person out attacking with their mob unavailable, leaving 1 people to organise and send defence.
- Rank 7 can't get enough real and fake in place to put off some of the attacks, resulting in huge losses.
 

TaO

Tree Surgeon
Joined
Dec 14, 2007
Messages
795
Location
The Hague
Scenario 3 (20 Member allies)
-Rank 3 ally attacks rank 7 ally
-Rank 3 ally has 10 members online, Rank 7 has 6 members online
-Rank 7 has 3 people out attacking with their mobs unavailable, leaving 3 people to organise and send defence
-Rank 7 can't get enough to real and fake in place to put off some of the attacks, resulting in huge losses

Its not about the size of alliance, its about activity and motivation an alliance has..
 

Iamsmart

Landscape Designer
Joined
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Messages
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Steve_God, according to proportions 2 people against 10 and 1 person against 5 should do the exact same thing - So your point is invalid.
 

Souls

Official Helper
Joined
Dec 14, 2007
Messages
837
Steve_God, according to proportions 2 people against 10 and 1 person against 5 should do the exact same thing - So your point is invalid.

Say one person in your mid-rank alliance starts to get bigger than the rest. He's at 2bil score, while the rest of you are around 1.2, 1.3billion. He gets inc from someone at 6bil, and there are only two of you online. You're ignoring sizes, which is something that doesn't change because alliance sizes did.
 

Iamsmart

Landscape Designer
Joined
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Messages
1,668
Then they would die if uncontactable - Just like they do now. I don't see the difference.
 
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