Fix flakking

[Steve_God]

To give some reference to the manual from peoples correct statements of how it works (as the fire-power is allocated directly according to numbers, not strength):

Gards have 1 star Health and 1 Star Armour.
Geos have 2 stars Health and 1 Star Armour.
That means that they require two stars worth of Health damage on them to be killed/distracted/disabled (in addition to the 1 star of armour), and are therefore harder to kill than Gards.

That means that often, one wave of units (with a lower initiative) won't kill everything as there's likely to be some Geos left (due to the low amount of fire-power directed at them initially), and is why you need some sweeping units (with a higher initiative) to kill the geos off before they land.

Simples!

 

[willymchilybily]

To give some reference to the manual from peoples correct statements of how it works (as the fire-power is allocated directly according to numbers, not strength):

so if geos are 20 x health stronger than gardeners

and you have 1m gardeners and 10k geos
0.91% of the first firing units will target the geos?

makes sense i guess as aposed to
((10k*20)/(1m*1 +10k*20))*100

16% targeting the geos??

*corrects previous post*.

 

[Steve_God]

Ok, example of the process: (all numbers are rough, and assuming the star scale in the manual is to a scale of 10 for each star {could be very wrong, but for illustration purposes}):
Attackers:
5m Gards = 99.01% (round it to 99% for ease)
50k Geos = 0.99% (round it to 1% for ease)

Attacking for 1 tick:
1m Hippys:
So 800k distracted, majority will be Gards (0.8 ratio of stoppage).
So of the 10k Hippys that fired on the 50k geos, the ratio would be around 0.08, which means 4k geos stopped.

Remaining:
Gards: 4.2m = 98.9% (round it to 99% for ease)
Geos: 46k = 1.1% (round it to 1% for ease)

1m Yobs:
So now we have 1.5m disabled, again, majority will be gards (1.5 ratio of stoppage).
So of the 10k Yobs that fired on the 46k geos, the ratio would be around 0.15, which means 6.9k geos stopped.

Remaining:
Gards: 2.7m = 98.6% (round it to 98.5% for ease)
Geos: 39.1k = 1.4% (round it to 1.5% for ease)

3m Small Droids:
So now we have 2.8m disabled, here, this will be 'all' the remaining gardeners, as 2.955m SDs would easily stop the 2.7m Gards. (the usual ratio is roughly 4 from practice)
However: the remaining 45k SDs tasked with targeting the Geos, would have it's ratio reduced to 0.4, which means roughly 18k geos stopped.

Remaining:
Gards: 0
Geos: 21.1k
Leaving the remaining Geos to land successfully.
(The numbers aren't the same as the example, but it illustrates the principle)

All you would need is another sweeper layer after the SDs, where 100% of their target would be geos, and land loss would have been stopped.
However in that scenario, you needed more Yobs to act as the main stopping force (as they perform slightly better than Hippys), and use Small Droids as the sweeper!

 

[Ridiculous_Lee]

yo, I understand how it currently works, I just don't like it. That's all. I never liked the concept of having to have sweepers even though your units have more than enough firepower.

But trust me, I understand how it works. And I have suggested something radically different. It doesn't mean all units have the same stats, all it means is that units are smarter and don't waste 90% of their firepower on gardeners when they only need 10% of their firepower to disable them.

What I'm not saying is make all units the same. What I'm not saying is to remove flakking.

And yes, I understand that you guys like the game how it is, I get it. I knew this idea wouldn't be well received, but it's remarkable the degree of "l2p" it got. Just because someone thinks another way would be better doesn't mean they don't understand how it works.

 

[Chezz]

By fix, I mean, don't let 100% of one unit get distracted/disabled/killed before 1% of the same type of unit is affected.

Just to add on something...

From your original post, this sentence seems to suggest that you mean the current system has the units 'queue up' in order of their unit type and take turns getting killed/distracted/disabled etc.? :| Obviously not....

 

[tobapopalos]

yo, I understand how it currently works, I just don't like it. That's all. I never liked the concept of having to have sweepers even though your units have more than enough firepower.

But trust me, I understand how it works. And I have suggested something radically different. It doesn't mean all units have the same stats, all it means is that units are smarter and don't waste 90% of their firepower on gardeners when they only need 10% of their firepower to disable them.

What I'm not saying is make all units the same. What I'm not saying is to remove flakking.

And yes, I understand that you guys like the game how it is, I get it. I knew this idea wouldn't be well received, but it's remarkable the degree of "l2p" it got. Just because someone thinks another way would be better doesn't mean they don't understand how it works.

Just because it is "radically different", doesn't mean it is better. What you are saying is precisely what you're saying you're not saying. If what you are suggesting was implemented flakking would become utterly obsolete. Why bother buying attack dogs to flak your TLs if they're just going to get wasted while not even drawing the enemy's fire? Why bother buying gardeners or CGs or stealth gards if the majority of INN killers are going to target your geos anyway? To implement this suggestion you would make half the units in the game redundant and it would completely screw up route balance.

You haven't thought this through at all and show very little knowledge about cause and effect, hence the comments about you learning to play the game.

 

[Elevnos]

The main problem there I thought Ezekiel was your hippy:yob ratio, you want a 3:1 hippy to yob to and that would've got you a lot more disables.

 

[Cheese]

The main problem there I thought Ezekiel was your hippy:yob ratio, you want a 3:1 hippy to yob to and that would've got you a lot more disables.

Elevnos you seriously have no idea, the problem has been addressed... he had nothing to sweep after the SD. I'd expect you to understand something so simple in the game sheesh.

 

[Ezekiel]

Lee the title you set fir the thread was 'fix flakking', which means you were infering it's broken. Which it's not.

Toby summed up what was wrong with your suggestion anyway.

 

[Alcibiades]

yo, I understand how it currently works, I just don't like it. That's all. I never liked the concept of having to have sweepers even though your units have more than enough firepower.

But trust me, I understand how it works. And I have suggested something radically different. It doesn't mean all units have the same stats, all it means is that units are smarter and don't waste 90% of their firepower on gardeners when they only need 10% of their firepower to disable them.

What I'm not saying is make all units the same. What I'm not saying is to remove flakking.

And yes, I understand that you guys like the game how it is, I get it. I knew this idea wouldn't be well received, but it's remarkable the degree of "l2p" it got. Just because someone thinks another way would be better doesn't mean they don't understand how it works.

Just because it is "radically different", doesn't mean it is better. What you are saying is precisely what you're saying you're not saying. If what you are suggesting was implemented flakking would become utterly obsolete. Why bother buying attack dogs to flak your TLs if they're just going to get wasted while not even drawing the enemy's fire? Why bother buying gardeners or CGs or stealth gards if the majority of INN killers are going to target your geos anyway? To implement this suggestion you would make half the units in the game redundant and it would completely screw up route balance.

You haven't thought this through at all and show very little knowledge about cause and effect, hence the comments about you learning to play the game.

Truth.

 

[Steve_God]

But trust me, I understand how it works. And I have suggested something radically different. It doesn't mean all units have the same stats, all it means is that units are smarter and don't waste 90% of their firepower on gardeners when they only need 10% of their firepower to disable them.

Please outline your suggestion in detail with an example of how the mechanics would work - if it's doable, who knows, it could get implemented

 

[Ram]

yo, I understand how it currently works, I just don't like it. That's all. I never liked the concept of having to have sweepers even though your units have more than enough firepower.

But trust me, I understand how it works. And I have suggested something radically different. It doesn't mean all units have the same stats, all it means is that units are smarter and don't waste 90% of their firepower on gardeners when they only need 10% of their firepower to disable them.

What I'm not saying is make all units the same. What I'm not saying is to remove flakking.

And yes, I understand that you guys like the game how it is, I get it. I knew this idea wouldn't be well received, but it's remarkable the degree of "l2p" it got. Just because someone thinks another way would be better doesn't mean they don't understand how it works.

Just because it is "radically different", doesn't mean it is better. What you are saying is precisely what you're saying you're not saying. If what you are suggesting was implemented flakking would become utterly obsolete. Why bother buying attack dogs to flak your TLs if they're just going to get wasted while not even drawing the enemy's fire? Why bother buying gardeners or CGs or stealth gards if the majority of INN killers are going to target your geos anyway? To implement this suggestion you would make half the units in the game redundant and it would completely screw up route balance.

You haven't thought this through at all and show very little knowledge about cause and effect, hence the comments about you learning to play the game.

/Thread.

 

[willymchilybily]

The main problem there I thought Ezekiel was your hippy:yob ratio, you want a 3:1 hippy to yob to and that would've got you a lot more disables.

fyi, thats only if you have no units to fire after the yobs. (for example at round start) as he has SD's he should mass yobs with SD's to sweep. so in Ezekiels case he should probably mass yobs instead of spending so much on sd's. and use sd to sweep the exposed geos.

 

[Elevnos]

The main problem there I thought Ezekiel was your hippy:yob ratio, you want a 3:1 hippy to yob to and that would've got you a lot more disables.

fyi, thats only if you have no units to fire after the yobs. (for example at round start) as he has SD's he should mass yobs with SD's to sweep. so in Ezekiels case he should probably mass yobs instead of spending so much on sd's. and use sd to sweep the exposed geos.

The problem was he didn't have enough hippies. I was saying less yobs so that he could have more hippies, which are your main strippers early round.

 

[tobapopalos]

The main problem there I thought Ezekiel was your hippy:yob ratio, you want a 3:1 hippy to yob to and that would've got you a lot more disables.

fyi, thats only if you have no units to fire after the yobs. (for example at round start) as he has SD's he should mass yobs with SD's to sweep. so in Ezekiels case he should probably mass yobs instead of spending so much on sd's. and use sd to sweep the exposed geos.

The problem was he didn't have enough hippies. I was saying less yobs so that he could have more hippies, which are your main strippers early round.

That's just not true. They are your main flak stoppers IF you have nothing firing after yobs. Yobs actually do far better against flak than hippies do, so if you have SDs to sweep then you're better off just buying yobs + SDs rather than hippies.

 

[Azzer]

Flak doesn't need fixing because flakking is not broken, how it works is by design, it's a fundamental aspect of the comat of Bushtarion and a huge part of the design and balance of the routes and units. Without it (ie, implementing what you suggested in the first post), combat would be extremely watered down, the entire set of units and routes would need re-designing, and you'd lose a large tactical element of play.