• Those wishing to contribute to the game by making suggestions (both small and large) should read the following before doing so.

    Bushtarion largely runs completely automatically, and has been designed intentionally to be as self-maintaining as possible, with mechanics and balance considered at a completed point.

    Please do not spend large amounts of time coming up with complex suggestions in the hope that they will be read and possibly implemented in the future, unless you just enjoy the discussion, theory-craft, and such.

    The most likely changes will be rules-changes, specific number-tweaks to units, techs, and similar sorts of changes, and only if a large community consensus is reached as "proof" that a change would, overall, be an improvement, and are more likely to be done in batches, occassionally, not as a regular thing.

A new concept of damage, and not dying 0_0

timtadams

Landscape Designer
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Sep 9, 2008
Messages
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NB: i have simplified the start of the idea, by assuming no units die in battles. This is addressed further on where i explain how it can still be possible for units to be killed, depending on a fairness rating
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I was just thinking about how many people believe there is an issue with how land is no longer the most important aspect of the game. Apparently it all used to be about how people could whore the most land. Now people get zeroed and it is quite a setback, and pretty annoying. There have been a number of measures to reduce the impact such as insurance and injuries.

So i got an idea of another way of going about it. It works something like this:

Someone gets attacked by someone bigger than them, eg RPG attacking Robo, but basically they're gonna get zeroed, or similar. Say the robo has 15 million RPGs and the Robo has 3 million Cybers, normally all the cybers would die.

What i propose is that instead of all their troops dying, they instead suffer 'permanent' 'damage'. So Instead of having zero Cybers, the robo still has 3 million Cybers, but they have a damage level of 98% (or 2% health). So for simplicity only 2% of the cybers fire. Then next tick the RPGs fire again and the cybers have 100% damage (0% health) and none fire (of course the Cybers could suffer 100% damage the first tick)

After the attack the damage on the units slowly reduces while they 'heal'. (say .5% per tick) So over two days (for example, im not doing the math atm :p) they regain their full health (ie they have a 0% damage level). This way the attacker can quickly resend without having to face a fully healed army.
An issue is at what rate should heath increase? I though that it should increase slowly at first, and then quickly later, ie exponentially. I figured the rate of health regeneration could be given by: "health = (EXP(x/100)-1)*20" where x is the number of ticks. This would give:
Time (hrs)......health (%)
5....................7.00
10..................16.44
15..................29.19
20..................46.40
25..................69.63
30.................100.99

Now this could be inconvenient if someone wanted their troops now. So instead of waiting for their units to heal, they can pay to have them healed immediately. And the amount they would have to pay would correspond to the damage level.
So if the robo's 3m Cybers had 0% after the mid tick, the player could pay £330 billion to heal them back to 100%, just like how they would normally buy up last tick. Or they could pay half that (depending on how much money they have, what they want ect) so their damage is at 50% and only 1.5 million fire last tick Or, for example, they could wait till healed to 50% themselves, you could pay £165 billion to heal them up to 100%. Or they could not pay anything, and they would have all their units back in 1-2 days

Now this 'damage' would have to be shown in Haxors (or maybe another type of intel, available after haxors, and before spies). Of course the damage would also have to be different for each type of unit, due to different units survivability. You might not get it and think its complicated. But it wouldnt be hard to get.

So for the robo, his/her cybers could have 2% health while his PAs have 0% health. Therefore, when you 'hack' them you see: Cybernetic warriors 3,000,000 (2%) Psychopathic Android 1,000,000 (0%). From this you can deduce that 60,000 cybers will fire (or can be damaged) and no PAs. Now this might make those last second decisions take too long as you try and work out how many troops will fire because they healed them 20 seconds before end of tick. So while it can show the number of units, have in bold or something the number of units that would fire. Eg:
Cybernetic warriors 3,000,000 [60,000] (2%) Psychopathic Android 1,000,000 [0] (0%)

Now of course this means no one will ever really die, and bounty and insurance wouldnt apply the same, if at all.

But i also thought of how units could still die. I thought this could tie into the new 'fairness calculator' if done. So someone who is very fair and has a fairness rating of 90/100 (or however you want to express it) only 10% of their troops can die, while someone who is 'unfair' with a rating of 10/100 can lose up to 90% of troops. This % represents a maximum, not how much you would lose every battle :p
This way, you can get bounty for units you kill, so obviously, the lower their fairness, the more you can kill, and the more bounty you can get.

So yeah, thats my idea
Of course i expect a lot of people wont think it is a good idea/could complicate things a bit, ect but i just thought id throw it out there :)
Any ideas, criticisms?
 
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CrimsonFury88

Harvester
Joined
Oct 21, 2009
Messages
157
Interesting.... Very interesting.

Meh, just to throw another one out there. I'd prefer a "controlled" growth system, than a "heal your units" thing.

Would it work to have a "limiter" on unit spend? XD

You develop "Training Camp", and lo and behold, you have a Command and Conquer style Barracks appear in your HQ. This Training Camp generates 50-100k "recruits" per tick. So every tick, the maximum number of potential recruits grows by 50k, up to a "maximum capacity" (to save people waiting all round and then just spamming on units).

So if the training camp says you can recruit 100k, you can recruit 100k. You would then be unable to recruit 100k more until next tick, up to a full capacity of 1m Privs (10 ticks).

Would be a nightmare to introduce, but oh well.
 

Davs

Garden Designer
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Dec 16, 2007
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England
So basically your troops never really die, leading to most players (especially those with the most land) finish the round with an obscene number of troops - similar to havoc, but perhaps not quite as ridiculous. An interesting idea, but I don't think it'll catch on.
 

timtadams

Landscape Designer
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Messages
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So basically your troops never really die, leading to most players (especially those with the most land) finish the round with an obscene number of troops - similar to havoc, but perhaps not quite as ridiculous. An interesting idea, but I don't think it'll catch on.

Well, thats why I think the part about the fairness calculator would be essential. (you did read that part?) I explained how you can lose troops. Obviously, the bigger people are forced to attack people smaller than them (it is like always the case, regardless of rank) thus gaining negative fairness. So you can still have like anywhere between 0% to 100% of your troops die depending on your fairness rating. I think this would help make things fairer

I would say everyone starts with 50% fairness, therefore they can lose up to 50% of their troops. To reduce this number, they would have to attack players larger than themselves, ect. This means they are less likely to target smaller player/mass bash as they will gain negative fairness and be able to lose more troops.

It works in my mind :p
 
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Dark_Angel

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I have only briefly looked over what you're suggesting, but what strikes me as a massive flaw is the fact that this would completely screw up the attack analysis process.

You find a target with some nice land, you hack him/her.

It can already be an extremely complex process/calculation to determine just how much you need to land and how profitably. Your suggestion would presumably make it 10x harder to ascertain the defensive strength of a target.

Ormi' missing something ?
 

timtadams

Landscape Designer
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I have only briefly looked over what you're suggesting, but what strikes me as a massive flaw is the fact that this would completely screw up the attack analysis process.

You find a target with some nice land, you hack him/her.

It can already be an extremely complex process/calculation to determine just how much you need to land and how profitably. Your suggestion would presumably make it 10x harder to ascertain the defensive strength of a target.

Ormi' missing something ?

Yes you are :) I outlined how it would be just as easy as it is now, if you read th lot you will understand, i hope :p

Now this 'damage' would have to be shown in Haxors (or maybe another type of intel, available after haxors, and before spies). Of course the damage would also have to be different for each type of unit, due to different units survivability. You might not get it and think its complicated. But it wouldnt be hard to get.

So for the robo, his/her cybers could have 2% health while his PAs have 0% health. Therefore, when you 'hack' them you see: Cybernetic warriors 3,000,000 (2%) Psychopathic Android 1,000,000 (0%). From this you can deduce that 60,000 cybers will fire (or can be damaged) and no PAs. Now this might make those last second decisions take too long as you try and work out how many troops will fire because they healed them 20 seconds before end of tick. So while it can show the number of units, have in bold or something the number of units that would fire. Eg:
Cybernetic warriors 3,000,000 [60,000] (2%) Psychopathic Android 1,000,000 [0] (0%)

The key part is underlined. Damage indicates how many will fire. The 'Haxor' would show you (in bold for easy reading) the number of units that would be in the battle. The number you target, and the number that fire.

So in the example, for all intents and purposes, the robo has only 60k Cybers and 0 PAs
 

Dark_Angel

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Hmm, read it all properly now. It sounds like an ok idea in theory but I still don't think it seems all that practical: Make all units immune to death, is what you're saying - You have to be able to fail at a game, thats what makes it fun, to pick yourself up from rock bottom.
 

CFalcon

Official Helper
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Dec 14, 2007
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I fail to see the difference between this and injuries, except that units come back in a constant trickle rather than all at once.
 
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Cheese

Tree Surgeon
Joined
Dec 15, 2007
Messages
698
I respect the effort you put into suggesting this idea but at the end of the day it's a war game not a maths lesson. It's hard enough already to work out how much you need send to flak/kill someone...

How about instead of all this rubbish we just give each other rubber bats and the winner is the one with the least bruises at the end of the round?
 

timtadams

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I respect the effort you put into suggesting this idea but at the end of the day it's a war game not a maths lesson. It's hard enough already to work out how much you need send to flak/kill someone...

How about instead of all this rubbish we just give each other rubber bats and the winner is the one with the least bruises at the end of the round?

Its ok.

Obviously you didnt read the whole, and i dont blame you. Its long
 

Alcibiades

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I respect the effort you put into suggesting this idea but at the end of the day it's a war game not a maths lesson. It's hard enough already to work out how much you need send to flak/kill someone...

How about instead of all this rubbish we just give each other rubber bats and the winner is the one with the least bruises at the end of the round?

Its ok.

Obviously you didnt read the whole, and i dont blame you. Its long

it's not just him to be honest. Good effort, wrong direction.
 

timtadams

Landscape Designer
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tbh, i never expected this to go anywhere, it was just an idea and thought id just get it out of the way. Something like that.

And it wasnt too difficult to come up with either ;)
 
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