• Those wishing to contribute to the game by making suggestions (both small and large) should read the following before doing so.

    Bushtarion largely runs completely automatically, and has been designed intentionally to be as self-maintaining as possible, with mechanics and balance considered at a completed point.

    Please do not spend large amounts of time coming up with complex suggestions in the hope that they will be read and possibly implemented in the future, unless you just enjoy the discussion, theory-craft, and such.

    The most likely changes will be rules-changes, specific number-tweaks to units, techs, and similar sorts of changes, and only if a large community consensus is reached as "proof" that a change would, overall, be an improvement, and are more likely to be done in batches, occassionally, not as a regular thing.

Activity/Contactability Issue

Iamsmart

Landscape Designer
Joined
Apr 26, 2008
Messages
1,668
What the hell. What right do you have to call me a bad person because I attack at a range the game tells me I can?

I attack wherever I find a good target, may that be 31% or 131%. I won't change my playing unless the rules tell I need to.

And I think it was quite obvious that I definitely disagreed with lowering the attack range to 10%. See my previous post.
 

Steve_God

Official Helper
Joined
Dec 15, 2007
Messages
1,085
Location
Cheshire, England
Raping solo's 10% of me.

Lulz.
No mention either of agreeing or disagreeing with anything.

Definately not a post that got its point across ;)



Back on topic... the idea of 'fair' attacks giving more or less bounty, in theory 'should' be
resolved (or at least taken into account) in the 'Fairness Calc' that is soon to be implimented.
Personally, I'm gonna wait and see what effect that will have once it's up and running before suggesting anything new to try and address the issue.
 

DarkSider

Tree Surgeon
Joined
Dec 14, 2007
Messages
796
Melni you need to put some extra tought when suggesting that, it's more than attacker vs target 1:1.
What if the target gets massive defence ? How is that influencing cap and insurance? What if one huge attacker is breast feeding a small member, he won't take damage and the small member should get a full grab or a small grab ? What if the big player recalls last tick ? What if a big player just sends mobs on small players to affect the injuries and landcaps on legit attacks ? Or what if a big player doesn't care about the land gains and just wants to zero an allied player 10% because it's funny to kill somebody without taking damage back. Sure the guy gets insurance but he is useless for many ticks and if a "honorable" attack follows the alliance won't have his troops there to help defend. What about waves etc ..

Ahh good old l/f :(
 

Melnibone

Head Gardener
Joined
Jan 11, 2008
Messages
380
Melni you need to put some extra tought when suggesting that, it's more than attacker vs target 1:1.
What if the target gets massive defence ? How is that influencing cap and insurance? What if one huge attacker is breast feeding a small member, he won't take damage and the small member should get a full grab or a small grab ? What if the big player recalls last tick ? What if a big player just sends mobs on small players to affect the injuries and landcaps on legit attacks ? Or what if a big player doesn't care about the land gains and just wants to zero an allied player 10% because it's funny to kill somebody without taking damage back. Sure the guy gets insurance but he is useless for many ticks and if a "honorable" attack follows the alliance won't have his troops there to help defend. What about waves etc ..

Ahh good old l/f :(

All this is in tandem with the fairness calc i'll try to address them one at a time

What if the target gets massive defence ? i see no difference from now tbh? if im attacking at 30% or 10% remember DS i started playing this game and got addicted to it when the limit was 10% if your attacking someone 30% your size and the target gets massive defense you land is still capped as is bounty etc this is merely an extension of it

What if one huge attacker is breast feeding a small member, he won't take damage and the small member should get a full grab or a small grab ? Multiple attackers constitutes an unfair attack if one or both is bigger so the cap is based on total incoming not individual mobs

What if the big player recalls last tick ? what happens now? again its just an extension of the present system but tbh if this is the case then he player has 83% injuries under my proposed system just now he has 33% so id say being opened up to more potential attackers is more than compensated for by the increased protection

What if a big player just sends mobs on small players to affect the injuries and landcaps on legit attacks ? depends if its mutual or not if its mutual its against the rules if its just someone being a tard what can you do lol it happens just now on solos etc again its not a problem created by my idea this exists already if you have ideas how to address it i and the rest of the playerbase would gladly welcome them

Or what if a big player doesn't care about the land gains and just wants to zero an allied player 10% because it's funny to kill somebody without taking damage back. Sure the guy gets insurance but he is useless for many ticks and if a "honorable" attack follows the alliance won't have his troops there to help defend. What about waves etc .. Again not a problem created by this idea instead one that already exists especially at the 30% range yes theres people that will do it for 'giggles' but id rather someone 10 times my score did it and i lost 4% land and got 83% insurance than someone 3 1/3 times my size that i lost 10% land to and only gained 33% insurance

I understand all your concerns but i dont honestly see how this idea causes any of these issues in fact i think it'll have the opposite effect it provides more security from bashes in the form of stricter land caps and better insurance while opening up more targets for EVERYONE, more targets means more battles, more battles equals more fun, more fun hopefully equals more players something i know you personally have campaigned long and hard for...

seriously if your a vamp for example in the top 100 you may only have 20-30 possible s/o targets if you open up the range to 10% with added protection you'll increase this to at least 70+ targets this i believe will help alliances/solos to stay involved defeats wont be as crushing as they are at present so less chance of people quitting after a REAL bash as they'll have more troops and land to bounce back all in all i know im biased as its my idea but ask yourself this question will this suggestion affect the 'GAME' in a positive or negative fashion? i believe for the reasons listed it will be a positive thing ofc i respect your opinion but i feel your being harshly negative.
 

Melnibone

Head Gardener
Joined
Jan 11, 2008
Messages
380
What the hell. What right do you have to call me a bad person because I attack at a range the game tells me I can?

I attack wherever I find a good target, may that be 31% or 131%. I won't change my playing unless the rules tell I need to.

And I think it was quite obvious that I definitely disagreed with lowering the attack range to 10%. See my previous post.


As steve pointed out you weren't clear at all and my opinion of you is very simple if your posting in the suggestions thread you should be clear and precise in your agreement/objection to enhance the debate or put your point across your post here and from my reading in other threads shows you in my opinion as nothing more than an attention seeker with little in fact to say so please keep it for spam and gripes, places where snide little comments like the one you made are appreciated. If you have anything else to say feel free to pm me oh thats right youd rather post here derailing the thread as your obviously an attention seeker ^^
 

DarkSider

Tree Surgeon
Joined
Dec 14, 2007
Messages
796
i dont honestly see how this idea causes any of these issues

Dynamic insurance was removed as it was very hard to find a way to make it fair and unabusable. You're saying if you attack a lower ranked in top alliance and he gets defence you should get crap acres and he gets mega insurance .. i don't agree with you. You say if you stay against massive defence and even overwhelming compared to attacker score you should still get crap gains.
You say if somebody abuses the multiple attackers .. **** happens. I think that's a serious and probably most important thing that needs to be fixed before even starting the discussion about dynamic insurance again. I know a fairness calc is beeing worked on, but since we have no clue how it will work it would be a bit premature to make suggestions expecting the fairness calc to cover all the wholes in the suggestion.
 

Melnibone

Head Gardener
Joined
Jan 11, 2008
Messages
380
No Darksider i'm sorry mate but your missing the entire point as i stated in my previous post piece by piece is that my suggestion is not meant to alleviate those abuses of CURRENT problems, the suggestion is not to cure all bushtarions ill's but to help lessen the need for activity in the lower ranks...

Yes everything you mention is currently a problem in the game but the important part is my suggestion wouldnt solve them but i dont believe they would make it any worse if you wish to come up with suggestions to help these abuses do so and i repeat my suggestion doesnt 'create' these problems it is seperate to them entirely, everything you currently say is happening now at 30% so yes it'd also happen at 10%???

So again mate sorry but no, your reservations about this idea are wrong (at least the ones posted so far you may have more and i'd be happy to hear them as it makes me try harder :) )
 

DarkSider

Tree Surgeon
Joined
Dec 14, 2007
Messages
796
I'm probably missing your point because we're going in circles :p
You are suggesting dynamic insurance or at least it's a major part of your suggestion. Dynamic insurance got removed for a reason. Fix the reason and then start talking about it again ?
Don't get me wrong, i'd love dynamic insurance to work but the more i think how it can be manipulated the harder i see a chance any fairness calculator can take the right calls all the time. You might say your suggestion will not create those problems, but in certain scenarios it will fail given the amount of information you gave in your suggestion.
Fixed insurance = no headache, dynamic insurance = will fail many times. It's that simple for me even if you claim what you suggested doesn't bring problems.
It was enough a random guy to folow your attack with flak and geos, you did all the hard work and get crappy acres while the vulture got a full grab.

You are only suggesting how the package should look like but ask me and others to think what to put inside :p I can't see an easy answer sorry, i had some thoughts over but never saw the light :p
 
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