happy fluffy crap

[Azzer]

And would a Mod really get the sack for someone else to have a chance

Yes. But, unless somebody does something grossly out of control, I will keep to the 2 month timeframe for a trial, before I say "Ok, your application was good, I honestly thought you'd be good, I even gave you a chance to prove you'd be good when you started off rubbish... but you've had your 2 months, thanks for your effort, but goodbye".

 

[Alcibiades]

If you'd read what i said closely i said give them all more time, then make a judgement as to whether or not they've improved sufficiently to remain staff. Is that unreasonable? These people (for the most part i think) don't have Op or Mod experience and are learning as they go, so yeah they're going to make a lot of mistakes; but so long as they eventually do learn surely that shouldn't be a problem?

The Staff it seems *were* chosen we must assume at least partly because Azzer saw something in them that he thought would make them good role models, disciplinarians, mood lighteners, welcomers, helpers etc. Presumably a variation within his staff to give him a well rounded group.... No, I doubt they were ready, No I don't think many of us would be...

As for a Mod getting the sack for someone else to have a chance Azzer has said numerous times, both here and on IRC that the current (newly hired) staff is on a two month probationary trial period, after which they can step down or be removed with no hard feelings if it is felt they are unsuitable. Presumably Azzer would be the only one making the final judgment when these 2 months are up hopefully taking into account all of their behaviour from start to finish; the good, the bad and the ugly.

Seems pretty reasonable to me...


Edit: I realize I was a bit hasty in my judgment of the 5 minute tick failure Twigley; but time has proven that it was fixed, and that things are so far progressing fairly well with bugs being discovered and fixed rapidly. The connection to this thread is... what exactly? That giving people more time to work out the kinks is a good idea? Well yeah, obviously it is, but the two scenarios are a bit different, with a few crucial differences...

 

[Zaheen]

Can't we just all hold hands and be friends?

Sheesh, some people...

 

[Steve_God]

Putting my Helper hat aside, I do believe that the Forum mods are enforcing the rules with a firmer hand, however I don't believe that it's a bad thing.

I have (for the first time EVER playing Bushtarion in my many years) been given an unofficial warning for trolling this week. At the time of posting it, I thought that my post was just some light political propaganda, in retaliation to some recruitment propaganda posted by an opposition Alliance Leader, and was probably not much different to the usual political propaganda that went on in previous rounds.
However after receiving the informal warning, and the offending articles being deleted (both mine, and that of which I was responding to) I had a second thought about it and saw how it could have been conceived as being trolling, and could have started further conflict.
And it also helped as a reminder that political propaganda should be kept to the newly created 'Politics' section.

So, in summary, they are being firmer, but in a good way from what I've seen so far

 

[Dark_Angel]

I - and all mods - genuinely want feedback on new forum rules, and new moderation processes. If the users as a whole feel they are being too heavy handed in certain areas, please speak freely (but politely/constructively! ) about it, I've already issues several messages to either individual mods, or all mods as a whole, as a direct result of player feedback. )

QFT. And I know from talking to other mods they feel exactly the same.

Getting worked up about it, indeed exaggerating the situation, rather than politely/constructively making suggestions/remarks - is not the way to go. And will just make you look unreasonable and bad-temperered.

 

[Matthew]

It's not just that. The other day at the start of the round I was making a joke about a certain guy with a lot of acres "assuming" it was JJ and I get a warning for that.

A day or two later there is a discussion with BlackWolf on IRC on the subject of spies and whether he uses them and we both get several warning from a certain OP when we were discussing it quite civilsed. No bad words, no foul language, no trolling. Warning were still coming though.

Then today there is this:

[23:52:51] <f0xx> lol ram.
[23:53:16] <CLem> fuxxxx
[23:53:33] <harriergirl> clem, please don't evade the spam filter that way
[23:53:41] <harriergirl> not spam, profanity
[23:54:20] <Recon|> is "f0xx" considered profanity?
[23:54:28] <harriergirl> no
[23:54:38] * harriergirl snuggles clemmy

-

After that I go and PM lil' Tana

[23:55:35] * f0xx slaps harriergirl around a bit with a large trout
[23:55:36] <f0xx> [23:53:16] <CLem> fuxxxx
[23:55:36] <f0xx> [23:53:33] <harriergirl> clem, please don't evade the spam filter that way
[23:55:36] <f0xx> [23:53:41] <harriergirl> not spam, profanity
[23:55:37] <f0xx> .
[23:55:38] <f0xx> see
[23:55:44] <f0xx> tht is what garrett is talking about
[23:55:51] <f0xx> when he is telling you to chill out
[23:56:04] <f0xx> fuxx is how CLem and Nickk usually call me.
[23:56:09] <f0xx> it is not "****s".
[23:58:13] <harriergirl> but the rest of the channel doesn' tknow that
[23:58:23] <harriergirl> and to new people looks like i'm letting him get away with something
[23:58:29] <harriergirl> it's not like I slapped his hand or kicked hm
[23:58:43] <harriergirl> I asked him nicely =P

<3 Tana.

This is the message I recieved for one of my infractions:


I see mods and ops "reminding" us of their presense non-stop. It's like "hey, have in mind we are watching you, so don't think about doing something nasty".

Look around the forums and see how many threads have the "Keep it polite. No flaming or trolling please." words from Pin. It's just rediculous. Even at the slightest sight of disagreement and warnings start to come.

Take a chillax pill guys.

Something similar to the fuxx thing happened when twigley calls me "chewgay" and i call him "twigfag" except i received a ban on the spot, also received a two hour ban from IRC for saying "cock" granted it was after being kicked for swearing, however i don't think thats an offensive word at all. I accept that the ops are new, i understand azzers intentions and purposes by electing these new people and adopting these new rules and i can also see that these purposes are not being met by the precautions taken :/. I seriously think that eventually someone such a garrett will get bored of the poo on these forums and bush and just register their own forums and unofficial irc chan to avoid the crazyness of this all.

OH and the same op gave me a 4 day ban from the forums for griping about it (apparently it's "failing to escalate things properly"). A start to fixing this again would be to OP asmo and alci again, imo my favourite ops, very active and in my opinion delt with situations in the most appropriate manner. As opposed to the current "issue 16 warnings and wait for squiffy to ban someone" approach issues by 95% of the new ops, and the certain op who imo has the most potential just bans you if you say muffin in the wrong tone of voice.

 

[Dark_Angel]

Matthew + Mattheus

There's an air of over political correctness now. I've been modded and recieved warnings on the forums because what I said *might* cause offence to someone. My post in the player pics thread saying "Come on you bunch of pussies, upload today!" was modded on the grounds of profanity.

->

To follow on from your examples; in general it's best to try and create a friendly atmosphere on the forums: this involves moderating certain words which might cause offense to some - remember, younger people play this game (and please don't get into the whole EULA, they-know-what-they're-getting-into palaver! This is not the place). If one word or phrase can be interpreted in a number of ways, one of which is bad, it's generally a good idea to modify it so that that scenario no longer exists.

QFT. Just because a word doesn't offend you, doesn't mean it doesn't offend another. Minors play this game, and we must moderate profanity that they shouldn't be subjected to. Would you hear a rap song played on the radio with the word "pussy" in it? No, you wouldn't, because it is deemed wrong by the masses that this word should be subjected to all age groups.

I'm an adult and I don't like reading "you pussys" even when its indirect. It's a word I might use amongst friends who I know would know, for a fact, I'm joking - and I wouldn't use it in the company of minors.

-

I appreciate the feedback, and I think everybody needs constructive feedback on how to improve the jobs (not just simply shouting out "OMG YOU SUCK THIS SUCKS SACK THEM ALL" - ok there hasn't been anything that extreme, but anything along those lines is frankly unhelpful)...

Again, QFT. The new mods are just that, new. We are learning where to draw the line and may draw it in the wrong place sometimes. Ranting about it isn't the way to get this resolved, polite/constructive responses are far more likely to be taken onboard.

 

[Matthew]

Again, QFT. The new mods are just that, new. We are learning where to draw the line and may draw it in the wrong place sometimes. Ranting about it isn't the way to get this resolved, polite/constructive responses are far more likely to be taken onboard.

I aknowleged that in my post... however the fact is the ops especially have had ops modelling this behaviour for years trhough the MarkB's of this earth. I think my response was constructive with saying giving ops back to the alcibades' and asmo's of this world. Go on the chan at 2/3 am(a lack of american ops has already been noted elsewhere), you can get away with murder, i was in last night under the influence of alcohol and not kicked or even warned once. If you were to give me an "@" next to my name now all i would do would be to mimic the behaviour of the Op's who i consider to be respectable already.

additionally, you say "Just because a word doesn't offend you, doesn't mean it doesn't offend another. Minors play this game, and we must moderate profanity that they shouldn't be subjected to.", firstly i don't consider cock to be a profane word in any way unless used as a direct insult (which is a completely different arguement as cheese or sheep could be offensive in the wrong context) which is a different arguement all together, secondly how does saying "cock" invoke a 2 hour ban? ultimately the strictness is getting to such a degree that the channel will turn into an absolute joke, there is a difference between making the channel accessible to all and making it a kiddie club.

And just for the record, it's usually the younger members of the game who are the regular offenders *points to the lovely smed*.

 

[Alcibiades]

Would you hear a rap song played on the radio with the word "pussy" in it? No, you wouldn't, because it is deemed wrong by the masses that this word should be subjected to all age groups.

You... don't listen to a lot of rap do you....? If you think 'pussies' isn't in rap songs you either A: Don't have functioning ears; or B: aren't listening hard enough. And before you say it, yes, even songs on the radio.


If you keep moderating the faeces out of everything we say, then no one is going to want to say anything, for fear of having it edited into insensibility. If you turn us into a police state, we're just going to hit Checkpoint Charlie and bust our way into the West.

 

[Azzer]

I am suprised people are so bothered about having a word edited by a mod "silently". If you haven't received a warning, and there's been no public "OMG I edited this guys post cos it was NAUGHTY!", then a silent edit - if it's keeping the meaning of the post (not changing the actual contents so to speak) - should be a good thing.

It's no different than the automated word censor, but allows mods to read context in to a word rather than "blanket censor" a word (eg I can't use the forums to automatically blanket censor pussy, because "pussy cats" is ok). Just think of it as an extended word filter. I don't see people moaning about the word filter/word censor much... maybe people don't mind a robot automatically editing their posts, but feel they have somehow been "personally attacked" when a human mod does exactly the same thing?

 

[Dark_Angel]

You... don't listen to a lot of rap do you....? If you think 'pussies' isn't in rap songs you either A: Don't have functioning ears; or B: aren't listening hard enough. And before you say it, yes, even songs on the radio.

Certainly not on UK radio. Not sure where you're from :/

And no, rap isn't my "thing" - but I know people can't say "pussy" on the radio o.0

Again this comes down to people not recognizing that bushtarion is played all over the world. As such, modding may seem extreme in some cases, as some words have different meanings in different countries, indeed even in different regions in those countries.

Extreme scenerio - someone posts (somewhere) that last night they slept with a 13 year old. Now typically, a UK or US forum user may think "wtf, you can't say that?" - Conversely, a Spaniard, or Italian, wouldn't be surprised atall by this, as the age of consent in those countries is 13+14 (as oppose to 16 in the UK, and 18 in some parts of the US).

People need to be a little more open minded to why sometimes decisions may appear rash/extreme. Mods have the difficult task of drawing lines, deciding what stays and what goes. The majority of those decisions are straight forward, but there are a sizable number that aren't, and that are subjective to a point where others are going to disagree. All we're asking is that those who do disagree with decisions, do so in a polite and constructive manner instead of just flaming.

-

maybe people don't mind a robot automatically editing their posts, but feel they have somehow been "personally attacked" when a human mod does exactly the same thing?

Lolz

 

[Alcibiades]

maybe people don't mind a robot automatically editing their posts, but feel they have somehow been "personally attacked" when a human mod does exactly the same thing?

Well the bots genuinely edit silently; if only you could have your staff behave in the same manner. In the background, continuously there, attentive, alert, capable, competent and above all almost completely inconspicuous.

 

[Mattheus]

To follow on from your examples; in general it's best to try and create a friendly atmosphere on the forums: this involves moderating certain words which might cause offense to some - remember, younger people play this game (and please don't get into the whole EULA, they-know-what-they're-getting-into palaver! This is not the place). If one word or phrase can be interpreted in a number of ways, one of which is bad, it's generally a good idea to modify it so that that scenario no longer exists.

But that's exactly my point :s I don't see how any of that negates what I said. Like I've stated already, I do believe there should be rules in place. Yeah posts should be edited if they're offensive, I'm simply disagreeing with the threshold of what makes something offensive so to speak.

Getting worked up about it, indeed exaggerating the situation, rather than politely/constructively making suggestions/remarks - is not the way to go. And will just make you look unreasonable and bad-temperered.

Not everyone has been ill tempered in this thread to be fair. I hope you realise that?

QFT. Just because a word doesn't offend you, doesn't mean it doesn't offend another. Minors play this game, and we must moderate profanity that they shouldn't be subjected to. Would you hear a rap song played on the radio with the word "pussy" in it? No, you wouldn't, because it is deemed wrong by the masses that this word should be subjected to all age groups.

I'm an adult and I don't like reading "you pussys" even when its indirect. It's a word I might use amongst friends who I know would know, for a fact, I'm joking - and I wouldn't use it in the company of minors.

OK. I'm at risk of repeating myself here. But the phrase "WON'T SOMEBODY PLEASE THINK OF THE CHILDREN!" comes to mind when reading that. I just think it's a little silly to dish out warnings on the grounds of potential offense caused. It's essentially modding in the name of the hyper-sensitive minority, while aggravating the majority.

I'll admit I may be a little insensitive sometimes DA, but I hope you can also admit you're a little over-sensitive at times? I mean hell, you found Resident Evil 5 racist because the zombies were African. If people look hard enough they can find ways to get offended everywhere.

Anyway, my original post wasn't aimed at any one person in particular. It was just general feelings about what I'd seen so far. Hopefully the situation will improve with time.

 

[BlackWolf]

I'll admit I may be a little insensitive sometimes DA, but I hope you can also admit you're a little over-sensitive at times? I mean hell, you found Resident Evil 5 racist because the zombies were African. If people look hard enough they can find ways to get offended everywhere.

I dont think he was really insulted of such, more like disturbed of that how army clothings dressing male who is white kills african and specially black people. Which disturbs me too.

 

[Martin]

I just wish to add my quick opinion on this. We are trying our best, we are making the community as friendly as possible, lots have different levels of what is acceptable. I think I have one of the highest tollerance levels out of all I know, but I would like to *ask* people if they could do me one courtesy to help me in my role(s). If you see me do something (to someone else or yourself) that you feel is unacceptable or out of order, bash me over a PM. The game is for a community and if I think something is wrong and the other 99% don't, then I need to know about it, so I can make notes for the future.


We need to live and learn, bare with us!

 

[f0xx]

[23:30:03] <f0xx> you here?
[23:36:00] <[R]Martin> mm
[23:36:13] <f0xx> I don't need you anymore
[23:36:17] <f0xx> you slow S***
[23:36:19] <f0xx>
[23:36:20] <[R]Martin> C***
[23:36:23] <f0xx> <3

That's why there is always a place in my heart for you Martini!

 

[harriergirl]

I want to make a note to Matthew/Chewie.

1) thefirst day you were kicked for saying twigfag ..yadda yadda,was my 1st day on the job. It was an overreaction that i've since corrected.
2) The day you were kicked for "cock" wasn't just cock. I don't remember specifics atm but it was a specific way that you put the word in there. The ban you received in forums was an automatic one because instead of Pming azzer with your concern you just posted OMG WTF I CAN"T SAY COCK ? and when you received you first infraction for you , you turned around and posted it again in another thread got the 2nd 3 pt infraction and were autobanned.
3) I have been a little harsh, if you notice I've been much more leniant on the language in IRC in general. I'm truly am sorry that you kinda got the brunt force of my learning curve But we had a good convo in PM and I hope we can move past it .

 

[Cyrus]

QFT.
Stop ruining our fun!

all i can say is, if you class pointless personel insulting as fun then maybe you should have a little think....

 

[Twigley]

Spam is personal insult?
Stop ruining our fun!

 

[Cyrus]

Spam is personal insult?
Stop ruining our fun!

and you should know better being an official helper aswell.