Remove random factor (half gripe, half suggestion)

[f0xx]

[close] 962,955 hostile Hippy attacked, distracting 853,530 allied staff.
[close] 5,797,103 hostile Political Mastermind attacked, distracting 35,546,457 allied staff.
[close] 14,967,750 hostile Protestor Guru attacked, distracting 72,570,499 allied staff.
[close] 1,466,045 hostile Hippy Van attacked, distracting 1,583,829 allied staff.
[close] 2,047,551 hostile Yob attacked, disabling 2,896,501 allied staff.
[close] 1,211,910 hostile Loudspeaker Protestor shouted in the ears of and distracted 3,370,310 allied staff.
[close] 262,082 hostile News Van attacked, distracting 3,158,321 allied staff.
[close] 20,553 allied Geo-Phys Thief stole 287 land. [53] tree. [179] bush. [28] flower. [27] grass. [0] uncultivated.

Distracted: 117,082,946 [£261,933,665,200] friendlies distracted.
Disabled: 2,896,501 [£6,613,154,800] friendlies disabled.

You stole 287 land. [53] tree. [179] bush. [28] flower. [27] grass. [0] uncultivated.

[close] 962,955 hostile Hippy attacked, distracting 926,333 allied staff.
[close] 5,797,103 hostile Political Mastermind attacked, distracting 35,982,173 allied staff.
[close] 14,967,750 hostile Protestor Guru attacked, distracting 79,821,370 allied staff.
[close] 1,466,045 hostile Hippy Van attacked, distracting 1,686,823 allied staff.
[close] 2,047,551 hostile Yob attacked, disabling 1,526,917 allied staff.
[close] 1,211,910 hostile Loudspeaker Protestor shouted in the ears of and distracted 56,384 allied staff.

Distracted: 118,473,083 [£264,969,309,000] friendlies distracted.
Disabled: 1,526,917 [£4,810,691,000] friendlies disabled.

Both of the attacks are on the same person, with the same units. First time I landed, second time I didn't. Logical explenation please?

I spend quite a lot of time to plan a perfect attack without sending more units than I need to, in order to land, then some stupid random luck factor comes and messes it completely. If there is to be a luck factor in a game like this, then there should be a battle calculator as well so we can always calc it with the worst luck. In a wargame luck should never be better than skill.

Why do we have this random factor at all? What does it bring to the game?

I have seen some REALLY odd ratios, but this round some of them have really come off the top.

 

[Alcibiades]

Re: Remove random factor (half gripe, half suggestion)

From my eyes, it looks like the lack of newsies actually kept the land safe the second time around.

The gurus blocked another 7 mill flak without the newsies, which meant that the following yobs/loudies/HVs were firing on more geos than in the first attack.

First attack you had the gurus perform worse (why, i'm not sure... ) and the sweepers failed as they quite evidently hit on more flak than geos, whereas in the second one, gurus cleaned up flak, and let the sweepers actually work.

As to why that's the case, i can only think... don't buy newsies

EDIT: The gurus underformed the first time, and overperformed the second time by about the same margin of 3 mill or so flak. I kind of like the random factor for just that very reason It makes your annoyingly well predicted attacks fun to frustrate. This game would be boring if you could calc everything beforehand.

 

[f0xx]

Re: Remove random factor (half gripe, half suggestion)

The news vans didn't fire because there was nothing to fire at. Now don't tell me why I landed or why I didn't. I know that already.

What I am saying is that there shouldn't be such a huge difference between good luck and bad luck. One shouldn't get a 20% boost or whatever it is just based on a random factor.

 

[atsanjose]

Re: Remove random factor (half gripe, half suggestion)

Ever heard of anyone who created a 100% correct battle calculator?

i havent

now you know.

 

[DarkSider]

Re: Remove random factor (half gripe, half suggestion)

I have to semi agree with this. Random factor comes from Azzer's fobia of having his formulaes and values known and always tryes to add something that will mess up by even a bit any calculators/predictions. On the other hand it sucks to know exactly how your units will perform and buy just the right amount of units. Just imagine at round start when you hack somebody sending gards and geo you know by 1 unit any mob details needed for defence.
I would rather have a sort of skill depending unit experience than plain luck. Same is with the rounding bug when 1 unit miraculously survives a strong layer and dies to next one revealing important info. So as a sugestion of myself, remove the 100% luck and make the random part depend on player actions somehow. Like a player who got hurt recently gets a random factor of up to 10% which slowly decays or attacking bigger players/defending vs big gives you a temporary boost etc

 

[Alcibiades]

Re: Remove random factor (half gripe, half suggestion)

Ever heard of anyone who created a 100% correct battle calculator?

i havent

now you know.

Well presumably he wants to remove any sort of random factor. So that units will always fire exactly the same on certain kinds of units permanently. Gurus would always do 1:5 exactly, or so I assume his thinking is going. Which just means he could theoretically predict down to the gardie and geo how many he would need to get through on a particular target as he would know the exact values that each unit would be capable of doing on flak/geos.

Now, i feel that this would be an absolute butchery of bushtarion fight system, which has seemingly had an element of chance in each BR for as long as i've been playing. Some of them might seem 'buggy' and weird, and occasionally it's very annoying when your well planned attack goes wrong, but i think it would be far worse and much more boring to have gameplay that was so predictable and dull. Why bother even fighting a battle when I can predict that i'll lose? I'd just send out. Sure i might try to bluff my attacker, get faked defence or what have you, but if i can predict, completely, the battle results, there's no sense in having the battle. You may as well be able to trade land. Example as follows:

F0xx: I haz 90 million SAs and will pwn ur n00bie defenzes....
Me: Oh well let's not even fight i'll just give you 15% of my land in a bank transaction, saves us both time and effort and saves me losing my troops to no purpose. Thanks!
F0xx: \o/ I r 1337.*


Isn't that also the whole reason that manual (outdated and tired tho it is) and it's unit section had very very vague stars instead of giving exact numbers? Wasn't it to prevent exactly being able to predict battles? I rather like the idea of at least some random factor in battle.... Call me old fashioned i guess....

*Disclaimer: I <3 f0xx, he knows this, and I know this.

 

[tobapopalos]

Re: Remove random factor (half gripe, half suggestion)

I quite like the random factor, but it may be a little bit excessive that it can affect a BR to that extent.

In short, 20% is too big a random factor.

 

[Alcibiades]

Re: Remove random factor (half gripe, half suggestion)

Well my attempt to be helpful was trashed so here goes...

i like the random factor. Period. I enjoy not being able to completely predict a BR.

ALSO, i like the fact that while you have a ratio for (in this case gurus) gurus of 1:5, do the math and tack on an extra mill or so (or whatever) required flak. If you had been sensible and tacked on a few extra mill gardies you may well have landed both times. I think if you're flakking that teh random factor should be higher as flakking is retardedly easy and even a bloody rock could flak someone. Random is good, screwing over those ******* who calc attacks is even better

 

[vlad]

Re: Remove random factor (half gripe, half suggestion)

Random factor must stay to prevent the "perfect attack". It gives both ends of the battle a chance to succeed where they might not.
It prevents calculators, which is a must within this game, a calculator would ruin it.

I dont see the issue, tbh f0xx, you should of known that if you need 15mill to land, send 17-18mill flack. Thats what experience tells you.

 

[Chezz]

Re: Remove random factor (half gripe, half suggestion)

I guess the reason why f0xx didn't send extra troops was because he had 20+ thousand geos left, so he probably thought it was more than enough flak the 1st time round...

 

[f0xx]

Re: Remove random factor (half gripe, half suggestion)

I dont see the issue, tbh f0xx, you should of known that if you need 15mill to land, send 17-18mill flack. Thats what experience tells you.

Yes, that is what the experienced "no.obs" who keep triggering on their targets will tell me. I don't need their advices, I have my own brain and when a simple random factor decides for me whether to land or not, I know that I may as well go and play some game of cards.

 

[Chewie]

Re: Remove random factor (half gripe, half suggestion)

*Chewie puts the toys back in f0xx's pram*

Well there is just a prime example of why I like the random factor. If some turd nugget can send the same ammount of troops at me and land everytime it would suck.

 

[philipd12]

Re: Remove random factor (half gripe, half suggestion)

I agree with f0xx there shouldn't be a massive random factor. Although there should always be a tiny bit of randomness in the attacks as if you sent troops out to war in real life they are not always going to preform to the same standard each time.

 

[No-Dachi]

Re: Remove random factor (half gripe, half suggestion)

Those of us who used to play other games with fully known stats knows why this is the case. In say Planetarion, you calculate each attack down to the last unit, and you calculate each defence down to the last unit. The element of surprise is gone, and it's more about finding the right target and making sure his alliance is busy defending somewhere else than anything else.

I like this unknown factor about bush. That you have to try and fail a couple of times instead of having a battle calculator which will tell you exactly how the battle will go.

 

[Alcibiades]

Re: Remove random factor (half gripe, half suggestion)

Those of us who used to play other games with fully known stats knows why this is the case. In say Planetarion, you calculate each attack down to the last unit, and you calculate each defence down to the last unit. The element of surprise is gone, and it's more about finding the right target and making sure his alliance is busy defending somewhere else than anything else.

I like this unknown factor about bush. That you have to try and fail a couple of times instead of having a battle calculator which will tell you exactly how the battle will go.

:winner:

 

[Azzer]

Re: Remove random factor (half gripe, half suggestion)

Random factor is a necessity for the fun factor - I myself have played altogether far too many games where I could myself make, somebody else had made, or even the game itself officially provided you with a combat calculator to predict exact outcomes for every combat, so you always sent the perfect attack each and every time. It's stupid.

Just a note on the random factor - every single hit (every unit attack) has a small random "wobble" in it, but there's also a very low chance (sort of a "rarity"), that on ocassion a unit can perform "uberly" - ie perform way above where it normally would.

 

[Garrett]

Re: Remove random factor (half gripe, half suggestion)

we are protected by top men!

who?

TOP! MEN!

 

[Kali]

Re: Remove random factor (half gripe, half suggestion)

Ever heard of anyone who created a 100% correct battle calculator?

i havent

now you know.

*Disclaimer: I <3 f0xx, he knows this, and I know this.

Do YOU know I am so crappy curious: I just copied and pasted this line above in Word and made it bigger, just to be able to read it.

Man, do I suck

 

[willymchilybily]

HELP AND SUPPORT

Mon 2nd Oct, year 3. Early hours Attacking someone
Battle Report - someone
[close] 2,643,372 hostile Political Mastermind attacked, distracting 20,379,976 allied staff.
[close] 1,163,555 hostile Protestor Guru attacked, distracting 3,443,235 allied staff.
[close] 968,900 hostile Hippy Van attacked, distracting 336,849 allied staff.
[close] 261,395 hostile News Van attacked, distracting 648,044 allied staff.

Distracted: 24,808,104 [£213,491,744,000] friendlies distracted.

You gained 4,270 effectiveness.

Mon 2nd Oct, year 3. Midnight someone
Battle Report - someone
[middle] 5,328,024 hostile Political Mastermind attacked, distracting 27,812,804 allied staff.
[middle] 12,720,917 allied Sorcerer attacked, killing 10,232,116 hostile staff.
[middle] 968,900 hostile Hippy Van attacked, distracting 340,556 allied staff.

Distracted: 28,153,360 [£335,076,332,000] friendlies distracted.
Died: 10,232,116 [£213,561,833,000] enemies dead.

You gained 190,279 effectiveness.
You earned £4,225,838,060 bounty.

okay mid tick. 7,279,083 sorcs stopped. therefore poms got a rubbish 1:3.8 i know very very poor

now as in the first tick i got similar amounts of lethals stopped. i can assume that the midtick performance on the lethals was good. as similar ratio with 1mil less poms. soo assuming similar ratio of lethals stopped(1:1.37) and before i had 1:1.4 so assuming that

is around 3.7milliom sorcs stopped. therefore the remainder was flak

16.68m flak was stopped thats 1:6.3

thats like a 66% increase in firepower on my flak. question Is that due to random factor alternatively i thought maybe as they were so out flaked they did better. some of the best ratios seen come from units when they are massivly out numbered? does this have anything to do with it, and does this link to the random factor?

and how big can this difference be. i mean 66% increase in firepower. whats the maximum random factor difference between a bad day and good day ? nhelp welcome...and if im being a tard and am missing something obvious or miss calculating please tell me about it

 

[TaO]

Edit your post, remove the ID. Please remove the ID's next time you post

Imagine if you could predict every single battle your gonna have in the round, how many fun would the round still be? not even the round, but the game.

Random factor is a fun game, and frustrates more then enough players, which is good. Nobody should be able to calculate a battle before even doing anything for it.