DORO

[Enrico]

Re: DORO

Okay this turns out, as usual when it comes to solos, to be a discussion on AR.

If Azzer fixes AR so intentional triggering becomes more difficult, then the griping will stop. I see three possible solutions.

1. AR only target the player who triggers it. (This I understand is difficult due to the nature of how the battle is calculated.
2. AR is calculated due to the value of the target at attacking for 3 throughout the whole attack. (So no way to trigger AR last tick by sending a sole hippy after the attacker have killed off the target, unfortunatly, then the method of oversending flak, to have enough killed by two ticks for AR to recall, will be a thing of the past.
3. Make SAS/Biomechs only fire range, and come without police or riot support. That way, a secondary attacker triggering Lethal AR will not harm an attacker on an earlier tick.


I think the last one is easiest to implement, and preferably combined with number 2, would put an end to all intentional triggering!

 

[Bengy]

Re: DORO

then by that rationale ALL of bush are a bunch of cheaters. since allies were caught triggering and for having multis and for land farming and for troop farming.

SO ALL OF YOU ARE CHEATERS!!!

(Something for everyone whos calling everyone cheaters to think about)

Ah if we're all cheaters doesn't that mean what we do to 'cheat' just becomes part of the game and therefore isn't really cheating anymore because it doesn't give anyone an unfair advantage if we can all do it?

(Something for roger rabbit)
Think about what you say and I really do appluade the fact that you said all of us are cheaters and did not include yourself. nice touch.

 

[nopjes]

Re: DORO

then by that rationale ALL of bush are a bunch of cheaters. since allies were caught triggering and for having multis and for land farming and for troop farming.

SO ALL OF YOU ARE CHEATERS!!!

(Something for everyone whos calling everyone cheaters to think about)

Ah if we're all cheaters doesn't that mean what we do to 'cheat' just becomes part of the game and therefore isn't really cheating anymore because it doesn't give anyone an unfair advantage if we can all do it?

(Something for roger rabbit)
Think about what you say and I really do appluade the fact that you said all of us are cheaters and did not include yourself. nice touch.

thats pretty much what your dooing yourself, labeling all solo players.

the thing is , people get attacked ask for a mate to trigger on them and then all of a sudden he HAS to be in doro, dont know weither he is or not, dont know what doro is, and who is in it, but hes solo and he triggers im pissed off for wasting 10 ticks or more and i blame doro!

 

[roger rabbit]

Re: DORO

(Something for roger rabbit)
Think about what you say and I really do appluade the fact that you said all of us are cheaters and did not include yourself. nice touch.

no you dum dum...that was a sarcastic comment ffs.

 

[Garrett]

Re: DORO

hai guise wat goin on n dis tread?

 

[Alcibiades]

Re: DORO

then by that rationale ALL of bush are a bunch of cheaters. since allies were caught triggering and for having multis and for land farming and for troop farming.

SO ALL OF YOU ARE CHEATERS!!!

(Something for everyone whos calling everyone cheaters to think about)

Ah if we're all cheaters doesn't that mean what we do to 'cheat' just becomes part of the game and therefore isn't really cheating anymore because it doesn't give anyone an unfair advantage if we can all do it?

(Something for roger rabbit)
Think about what you say and I really do appluade the fact that you said all of us are cheaters and did not include yourself. nice touch.

thats pretty much what your dooing yourself, labeling all solo players.

the thing is , people get attacked ask for a mate to trigger on them and then all of a sudden he HAS to be in doro, dont know weither he is or not, dont know what doro is, and who is in it, but hes solo and he triggers im pissed off for wasting 10 ticks or more and i blame doro!

No, last round, which is the point at which i have the most history of DORO players triggering on each other, it wasn't a random solo that got angry and had his mate trigger, it was players who were identifiably members of DORO and had been there for a while who were triggering. Sorry to burst your 'random solo' bubble. Of course there are probably more than one or two cases of 'mistaken doro identity'.

However, a whole is made of the sum of it's parts, Doro is made up of Solos, numerous members of that solo group have performed illegal actions which do not impress, and in fact irritate, the remainder of the bushtarion playerbase as a whole. They seem to do this with the consent of the remaining members of DORO, thereby garnering a reputation for cheating, incapable players. If you don't like your reputation, then clean it up; the responsibility is yours to clean, not ours to weed out the good from the bad.

 

[Elderveld]

Re: DORO

Alci (and others), i can hereby say that, none of the DORO players i have been playing whit the last 4-5 weeks, during my activity (6hours+) i never EVER saw someone asking for a trigger on them. And i was on irc alot. Not even when i spied DORO members in my range (top 50) when i woke up to see wat happend in the nite, i saw nothing. The only thing wat happend 2 times, was piggying, sending geos on the same tick as the attacker.
There are alot more solos NOT in doro then IN doro.
Dont know were u got ur facts, like to see some prove of it, cause im 100% sure it did not happen when i was online.

 

[Silence]

Re: DORO

Alci (and others), i can hereby say that, none of the DORO players i have been playing whit the last 4-5 weeks, during my activity (6hours+) i never EVER saw someone asking for a trigger on them. And i was on irc alot. Not even when i spied DORO members in my range (top 50) when i woke up to see wat happend in the nite, i saw nothing. The only thing wat happend 2 times, was piggying, sending geos on the same tick as the attacker.
There are alot more solos NOT in doro then IN doro.
Dont know were u got ur facts, like to see some prove of it, cause im 100% sure it did not happen when i was online.

You dont understand. Its not about facts its about reputation. The reputation of DORO is piggying/triggering. It happened last round, dont deny that, so people expect the same. The reputation of solos have been tarnished, therefore low opinions of DORO are formed.

As far as Im concered all solos are cheaters because of the actions of a small minority =)

Therefore, once again I propse the removal of AR to solve the solo problem =) A solo in the top 25 without AR would be impressive. At the moment its far too easy for solos because they trigger on each other and with a good use of sleepmode, untouchable.

Remove AR!

 

[Chewie]

Re: DORO

remove AR ftw!

Just change AR so it isn't blatently smegged up. And Doro is gay just because they are all assosiated with each other in an ally channel ;P and are all safelisted with each other.

 

[DarkSider]

Re: DORO

Just got around this topic now and i only read first post but i do have to say i strongly agree with Martin. I'm playing highly inactive solo this round, doing some cheerleading for a couple alliances and joined Doro first time this round when i heard f0xx might be trying to ask for triggers against my "resistance" against his rank1 at the very start Joined a couple times more when i was undecided if i should get a pnap or two and i left disgusted by the triggering requests that even got support from the aparently leader of the group who spamed the room with the previous requests of trigger.
I did and probably will still trigger intentionally on random solo's, never once i triggered on a request from the victim of attack. I had a solo group a couple rounds back and asked them to play fairly, i am aware that large solo groups tend to use mutual attacks out of frustration they can't get as good defence as an allied member. However a small advice if i may, for Doro members and other players: Once you will be labeled a cheat, all your achievements will be forgoten, all your hard work won't mean as much because you didn't had the strenght to take it like a man when you should have. I'm sure there are many fair solo's in Doro but i'm afraid their reputation will have to suffer aswell if they don't take action and demand a mentallity change in the group.

 

[Elderveld]

Re: DORO

Alci (and others), i can hereby say that, none of the DORO players i have been playing whit the last 4-5 weeks, during my activity (6hours+) i never EVER saw someone asking for a trigger on them. And i was on irc alot. Not even when i spied DORO members in my range (top 50) when i woke up to see wat happend in the nite, i saw nothing. The only thing wat happend 2 times, was piggying, sending geos on the same tick as the attacker.
There are alot more solos NOT in doro then IN doro.
Dont know were u got ur facts, like to see some prove of it, cause im 100% sure it did not happen when i was online.

You dont understand. Its not about facts its about reputation. The reputation of DORO is piggying/triggering. It happened last round, dont deny that, so people expect the same. The reputation of solos have been tarnished, therefore low opinions of DORO are formed.

As far as Im concered all solos are cheaters because of the actions of a small minority =)

Therefore, once again I propse the removal of AR to solve the solo problem =) A solo in the top 25 without AR would be impressive. At the moment its far too easy for solos because they trigger on each other and with a good use of sleepmode, untouchable.

Remove AR!

All i am saying is that when i was online, it never happend or i did not see it. (e.g. they pm'd each other or sumthing)
I ended up rank 21 value and rank 11 effectiveness last round, and i did not asked anyone to trigger on me, when i got attacked. The whole round!

removing AR is just stupid, then any solo would get wtf pwnd. The is not a single change solo's will be in top100.

 

[Garrett]

Re: DORO

All i am saying is that when i was online, it never happend or i did not see it

impossible to quantify. heresay and circumstancial. w/e basically.

people with blindfolds can say 'i didn't see it' all they want.

the fact people still post in defense is humorous at best.

 

[BlackWolf]

Re: DORO

Triggering sucks.

 

[Elderveld]

Re: DORO

All i am saying is that when i was online, it never happend or i did not see it

impossible to quantify. heresay and circumstancial. w/e basically.
people with blindfolds can say 'i didn't see it' all they want.
the fact people still post in defense is humorous at best.

Well, cause i'm getting acused of things that did not happen to me.
I'd like to set that straight. but i dont care anymore, i know wat happend.. all i need to know.

 

[Augustus]

Re: DORO

There is a lot of moaning about people triggering, which I can understand. However it is not breaking the rules. No one has questioned why solos resort to triggering. The instances where I have resorted to it (yes I will admit to doing it) have been where the same person keeps hitting me and I have enough of donating my land to them. Despite having AR above the 70% mark for almost all of this round I have rarely received AR without the need for triggering....which IMO is BS. All those who oppose it are basically moaning because their target found a way to keep their land, a way wich could be described as dirty/unskilfull/disgraceful. But is it anymore dirty/unskilfull/disgraceful than the tactics used to steal land in the first place? It is clear to see that the top alliances will steal land the easiest way possible and this invariably involves finding an easy solo target and sharing their ID among your alliance. So it is a natural evolution of the game for solos to protect their land the easiest way possible, by triggering.

So whilst those who are quick to complain 'all solos trigger', 'solos are cheats', 'remove AR' first take a look at your playstyle and consider whether it is a cause of all the triggering which is apparently 'abundant' in the game. Maybe you should turn your attention onto the Alliances around you instead of going for the 'easiest' land out there.

On a side note, the few times I have resorted to triggering it has not been the work of Doro. So although I am sure I will receive abuse because of employing this tactic, do not drag Doro into this when you do it.

 

[Enrico]

Re: DORO

If you as a solo repeatedly, with an AR in the 70% range, still have problem holding onto your land, you must either be playing the wrong route, or playing the chosen route wrong!

 

[Augustus]

Re: DORO

Not at all Enrico. Its just at this stage of the game it is very easy to flak my route without triggering.

 

[f0xx]

Re: DORO

There is a lot of moaning about people triggering, which I can understand. However it is not breaking the rules. No one has questioned why solos resort to triggering. The instances where I have resorted to it (yes I will admit to doing it) have been where the same person keeps hitting me and I have enough of donating my land to them. Despite having AR above the 70% mark for almost all of this round I have rarely received AR without the need for triggering....which IMO is BS. All those who oppose it are basically moaning because their target found a way to keep their land, a way wich could be described as dirty/unskilfull/disgraceful. But is it anymore dirty/unskilfull/disgraceful than the tactics used to steal land in the first place? It is clear to see that the top alliances will steal land the easiest way possible and this invariably involves finding an easy solo target and sharing their ID among your alliance. So it is a natural evolution of the game for solos to protect their land the easiest way possible, by triggering.

So whilst those who are quick to complain 'all solos trigger', 'solos are cheats', 'remove AR' first take a look at your playstyle and consider whether it is a cause of all the triggering which is apparently 'abundant' in the game. Maybe you should turn your attention onto the Alliances around you instead of going for the 'easiest' land out there.

On a side note, the few times I have resorted to triggering it has not been the work of Doro. So although I am sure I will receive abuse because of employing this tactic, do not drag Doro into this when you do it.

Noone said triggering is cheating, asking for someone to trigger on you though, is cheating and you just admitted that you are doing it. No matter how you try to justify your cheating, you will fail.

And yes ofcourse people will attack easy targets, it is YOUR fault at first place being an easy target. As Enrico said, if people land on you with 70% AR, then you basicly suck at what you are trying to do and if you have to resort to cheating to keep your land while having 70% AR, then you are a cheater who sucks.

There goes my respect for you.

 

[mvdevnull]

Re: DORO

Hi guys - drivefast here. (i didn't finish reading the thread, so hoping i got enough here)

I think we may be on a slippery slope here, but the discussion of triggering is a grey one and worthy of discussion. Correlating Doro solo buddies to this is probably just a way to get the discussion out in the open and I'm fine with that.

So, there's two portions to discuss in my opinion 1)DORO triggering philosophy, 2)triggering in general.

1)For those questioning triggering as a DORO fundamental - let me clear this up with a few relevant lines in the FAQ (everyone in DORO sees this when they bring up the doro page, friendlist, etc):

FAQ-=>
Q:If we are in doro (normal solo), and later change to an alliance, can I stay in the group?
A:Sorry - Psolo and Solo only.

Q:Originally DORO stood for "Death Of Rank One". Is this the meaning of your existance?
A:DORO has evolved into a general catch-all for any Solo's interest and should not be confused to be a death-to-rank-1 group.

Example:Even though DORO members tend to have an interest in a rank#1 resistance - you are just as likely to see a few spankin's dished to rank 12! You could even see a few guys spanking rank 12 and a DORO friend of rank12 crying in the channel about it.

[b]Q:Can I ask people in channel to trigger on me?
A:Triggering is against EULA - it's been said it's hard to enforce, but we want to play fair. If you ask, you'll be denied. If someone asks you, don't break the EULA.[/b]

Q:When will DORO get more exciting? it's tick 1500 and there's not much activity in DORO?
A:Because we can't defend each other, we have to buy more troops than a typical alliance member. The bad news is teching seems to go a little slower. The good news is - get your developments and teching done - and the fun will begin!! :P

In summary, if a trigger is requested in the channel - 95% of our guys know it's a fundamental we don't take part in (and as I thought against EULA). Now will Solo XYZ and DORO player XXXX and SOLO XXXX or ALLY XXXX player do it as the game exists today - i bet you'll continue to see it as it's not enforceable.

Oh, one last technical bit - probably b/c i'm like rank 4 on incomings this round and rank 300+ in valuation... I know perfectly random layered incomings have triggered on each other.. most of the time i don't htink they watch the spies.. anyway, it does happen (especially when ur trying to tech and have no troops or land like me!!)



2)And here's a reminder for some of those with strong opinions (that really can change) even for me and my bud F0xx:
Here's my example:
I think it's a personal decision for all. I can recall once last round I asked for a trigger, then changed my mind and asked a friend to recall like 1 tick later. I remember (which seems to conflict from what you guys are saying) that triggering is against EULA but not easily enforced. That was enough reason to retract my request last round... but for about 10 minutes my intention was to get someone to trigger my incoming..

Here's a good example of my irc friend f0xx: (he was in doro earlier in round but not anymore)

Or people might actually get more "honorable" and stop using lame tactics, unless they are really pissed at someone ofcourse.

cat \#doro.log | grep trigger | grep f0xx | more
[17:18] <Chewie-never-in-DOROfriendlist> f0xx they will trigger not they?
[17:27] f0xx-exDORO- I need flak to trigger on me
[17:27] f0xx-exDORO- I need flak to trigger on me
[17:31] <f0xx-exDORO> just trigger on me
[17:47] <f0xx-exDORO> since you noobs didn't trigger

Now, f0xx's request could have been a trick to see who would respond and only he knows that.. but quite possibly all of us playing solo have had this cross our mind. Perhaps ppl's opinion change by the round, by the minute or maybe they stick to there opinion forever.

So, that's two points about the DORO-trigger connection and triggering opinions in general..

So, there you have it and to finish up - I'll share my belief on the subject of triggering (and realize everyone has there own twist on there opinions): I personally believe triggering to be against EULA (which may be incorrect). I also believe triggering abuse as unsportsmanlike-like - and i've stuck with that.


=====
begin smack talk section:

Do I think some alliances will dislike the damage done by doro this round - yes - good chance.
Do I think some will vent of the risk to there troop in various ways such as this?  yes.   
Has doro grown in size with new ppl that weren't here in last round?- yes - size has increased.
Do I think DORO players have triggered more this round than last?  yes, checking logs now I see it requested by several ircnicks this round (some no longer in doro for one reason or another)).

LATA - take care.
drivefast

 

[Ranzou]

Re: DORO

Alci (and others), i can hereby say that, none of the DORO players i have been playing whit the last 4-5 weeks, during my activity (6hours+) i never EVER saw someone asking for a trigger on them. And i was on irc alot. Not even when i spied DORO members in my range (top 50) when i woke up to see wat happend in the nite, i saw nothing. The only thing wat happend 2 times, was piggying, sending geos on the same tick as the attacker.
There are alot more solos NOT in doro then IN doro.
Dont know were u got ur facts, like to see some prove of it, cause im 100% sure it did not happen when i was online.

You dont understand. Its not about facts its about reputation. The reputation of DORO is piggying/triggering. It happened last round, dont deny that, so people expect the same. The reputation of solos have been tarnished, therefore low opinions of DORO are formed.

As far as Im concered all solos are cheaters because of the actions of a small minority =)

Therefore, once again I propse the removal of AR to solve the solo problem =) A solo in the top 25 without AR would be impressive. At the moment its far too easy for solos because they trigger on each other and with a good use of sleepmode, untouchable.

Remove AR!

Funny how all these solos are supposedly cheating and they still can't make it into the top 25 (I see 3). Yeah, solo play is really easy - we need to stop all these solos winning bushtarion. Solo play needs to be improved, not made worse. MattM said pretty much everything I wanted to say

Also, Augustus is a solo robot pre-TDs. He can't expect to do well at this point until he gets them, so it's not a case of him playing the route incorrectly - the route is bringing him down. I'm not surprised he gets people to trigger on him - people just walk all over him otherwise. Intentionally triggering with consent is a lousy way of playing (and I don't condone it), but what do you expect solos (not just DORO) to do when solo life is so difficult?