• Those wishing to contribute to the game by making suggestions (both small and large) should read the following before doing so.

    Bushtarion largely runs completely automatically, and has been designed intentionally to be as self-maintaining as possible, with mechanics and balance considered at a completed point.

    Please do not spend large amounts of time coming up with complex suggestions in the hope that they will be read and possibly implemented in the future, unless you just enjoy the discussion, theory-craft, and such.

    The most likely changes will be rules-changes, specific number-tweaks to units, techs, and similar sorts of changes, and only if a large community consensus is reached as "proof" that a change would, overall, be an improvement, and are more likely to be done in batches, occassionally, not as a regular thing.

Bushtarion Manual

atsanjose

Landscape Designer
Super Moderator
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Dec 15, 2007
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Netherlands, Brabant
I know which routes kill which routes luckysports...........

I'm saying this for the players who are newer like my brother.

Then you update it. Why should someone else be willing to do it at your request if you're not willing to do it yourself?

what?

Sigh. It isn't that difficult to comprehend. He can write the updates and then give them to Steve who can add them to the manual.

wohaaa, so there are people who can update it... thought only azzer had access :) I always assumed it was a lost cause :/
 

timtadams

Landscape Designer
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Sep 9, 2008
Messages
2,260
Location
Australia
I know which routes kill which routes luckysports...........

I'm saying this for the players who are newer like my brother.

Then you update it. Why should someone else be willing to do it at your request if you're not willing to do it yourself?

what?

Sigh. It isn't that difficult to comprehend. He can write the updates and then give them to Steve who can add them to the manual.

indeed....did not know others could edit the manual.
 

CrazyMonkey01

Harvester
Joined
Jun 16, 2011
Messages
192
The thing with me updating the manual for fantasy route is i wouldnt do it because i havent played dragon or vamp route yet.
So why in the world would i write about a route that ive never played before :p
 

Iamsmart

Landscape Designer
Joined
Apr 26, 2008
Messages
1,668
yes but if u buy sirens u dont really know how to play the route so u shouldn't really be commenting in the manual, fortunately u have me as a good source of knowledge to cover your mistakes! :)
 

willymchilybily

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Dec 14, 2007
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uk
yes but if u buy sirens u dont really know how to play the route so u shouldn't really be commenting in the manual, fortunately u have me as a good source of knowledge to cover your mistakes! :)

you argued against me on this route before. at the time you claimed dragons cant kill rpgs they would get dicked on, i said sirens stop snipers firing getting over 1:2 on snipers. you denied this still until i posted a br. So although i respect your knowledge your not always right

but in this instance you are semi right.
siren ratio:
1.44 stopped 2.2 TL = 1:1.53

i dont see sirens making the Tls better targets for solo targets, due to a lack of damage if you send enough to stop them. but it certainly helps them not want to hit you. i keep saying you can go siren or golem and both are valid

siren= less tempting target for Tl. and edd can testify stealth rushing someone with TL's is a pain in the arse with an active siren heavy dragon. in the alliance. wait for stealth to reveal and send. siren/harrier = win against most targets a nice rush combo.

but going sirens means you dont scare robos for jack **** a lack of golems means some flak and CW will chew you up. but you go golems and tls can still pwn you

so do you want to turn rpgs upside down and have a useful unit to help bribe, prevent rushing, reduce the desire for tls to hit you, but make you robo bait. not to mention
they also fire before assassins, so nice to send with your dragons to kill SA. as assassins do get like 3:1 on dragons (as aposed to sa's 6.25:1)

or do you want golems to make it better to hit poms, be a bit more painful and far less cartain of a clean kill vs rpg, though you can ward off a few robos.but get hurt by tl's and tl rushes. but be better vs strikers/apache/marine

i guess it really depends on your alliance set up and your enemies set up. its a versatile route that can do both things. but if you try to do both things when incoming is 3 times your size you wont be able to do anything well.

im rank 2 for disabled stats this round with only a handful of sirens. they are effective units. and your sorcs/dragons get better damage ratios as they dont restore health just armour.

but yeah hitting solo tl's with sirens is not so great because normally others get ther before thier AR drops enough to make it viable. especially if they havent massed pure tl and have some lethal flak
 
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Iamsmart

Landscape Designer
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Apr 26, 2008
Messages
1,668
*you're

and u dont understand the big picture obv thats why u dont understand
 

tobapopalos

Hydroponics Developer
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Dec 14, 2007
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Location
Manchester
I think willy's post just opened up a wormhole in my skull and sucked my brain into another dimension.
 

Iamsmart

Landscape Designer
Joined
Apr 26, 2008
Messages
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because u'd rather play ineffectively and be a liability rather than an asset to ur alliance?

:S
 

Ogluk

Official Helper
Community Operator
Joined
Jun 3, 2008
Messages
764
Location
Bracknell
Iamsmart, If i was ineffective in RiF when playing dragons and utilising sirens and witches, then i guess most dangerous whilst ineffective is a pretty good show ;o
 

Iamsmart

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Apr 26, 2008
Messages
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fortunately the efficiency I speak of is not measured by those statistics, although both can be amplified by activity which has little to do with intelligent play!
 

LuckySports

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Jul 7, 2008
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Nonya
because u'd rather play ineffectively and be a liability rather than an asset to ur alliance?

:S

Yes, because I'm a liability to all my alliances.. :p I think your out of your mind on this one here..

Playing a route effectively is about knowing what troops do what and how to be combine them to be used against a certain set of enemies, and then doing so. Ogluk used the piss out of Sirens and ended up with the stat for killing stuff.. I didn't use sirens and ended up killing every solo/small ally SA I could find. What have you done?
 

Iamsmart

Landscape Designer
Joined
Apr 26, 2008
Messages
1,668
*you're

no it isn't.

i stayed in the top 20 while being solo with ze shitty dragon route for 2 rounds. Not that that has anything to do with a proper discussion for the routes role in an alliance.
 

Max

Garden Designer
Joined
Dec 14, 2007
Messages
1,015
Location
London
Iamsmart, your route setup did perfectly and brilliantly for your solo play, nobody is questioning that :)

It is just that in the right circumstances and situations, sirens ARE a good asset for a dragon player. Ogluk has proved that with plenty of evidence, I remember it very well :p
 

willymchilybily

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Dec 14, 2007
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uk
I think willy's post just opened up a wormhole in my skull and sucked my brain into another dimension.

that's what you get for reading willy's typical long posts

this one time.... at band camp, i told my life story. teachers head imploded.

IAS, maybe you dont like sirens, but then you were solo.. sirens are better for allied play than solo play. as u need golems as a solo cheap strong lethal flack. that kills innocent flak and boosts sorcs damage. but that doesnt make siren an useful unit... it is awsome and fun, and useful at making the route diverse and giving it alternative targets. it provides flexibility, and is nice anti rush unit in alot of circumstances.
 

LuckySports

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Jul 7, 2008
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Iam - Whilst the dragons don't "Excel" At anything, they aren't shitty.. They are great for large-team battles, with their massive amount of damage. Kind of like Rangers!
 

willymchilybily

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Dec 14, 2007
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uk
Iam - Whilst the dragons don't "Excel" At anything, they aren't shitty.. They are great for large-team battles, with their massive amount of damage. Kind of like Rangers!

I'd disagree with this they excel against a whole load of routes depending on your set up.

on world tables, fearsome, damage done / damage recieved, im at about 3.44...so ive done 3.44 x the damage ive recieved. which is good enough to be in the top 15. and its not like ive been shy with my attacks and overly picky with which routes i attack I've had the id from round start and have attacked enough to be current rank 1 for damage done/kills done. and been zeroed 1-2 times in that time, and had biomechs triggered on me once which was virtually another zeroing.

rangers:
Died: 3,306,613 [£117,541,613,200] friendlies dead. 46,867,444 [£695,848,610,000] enemies dead.

RPGs
Died: 995,954 [£26,406,558,400] friendlies dead. 54,057,804 [£732,110,822,800] enemies dead.

vamps without vamps
Died: 1,504,649 [£23,760,062,000] friendlies dead. 55,304,032 [£513,986,176,500] enemies dead

bunkers without sentry turrets
Died: 904,081 [£32,119,907,000] friendlies dead. 20,654,063 [£422,652,299,600] enemies dead.

Robotics - and this was against a decent amount of CW
Died: 2,666,877 [£127,480,882,000] friendlies dead. 38,236,236 [£518,753,843,000] enemies dead.

Strikers
Died: 7,490,085 [£277,313,460,000] friendlies dead. 26,550,689 [£718,396,566,100] enemies dead.

Secret agents
Died: 1,177,363 [£66,240,668,000] friendlies dead. 29,744,448 [£506,910,180,300] enemies dead.

even against an allied terrorist leaders, with the tl's firing and a full set of HQ challengers and hq humvees, and flak to flak against my sorcs/golems
Died: 10,905,551 [£561,241,177,000] friendlies dead. 67,814,650 [£739,320,342,400] enemies dead.

terrorists without the hq units interfering
Died: 755,338 [£34,060,966,000] friendlies dead. 78,768,214 [£586,727,383,000] enemies dead.

not to mentions puppetmasters, and poms which do no damage back or as good as, and i havent even picked the best ones. these are just the ones i still have in my news i have a better version of some of these for the routes but you get the idea. Dragons WTFpwn with and without sirens, as long as you know what targets you want to kill and set your self up to do so. they Excel at EVERYTHING!
 
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Max

Garden Designer
Joined
Dec 14, 2007
Messages
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Location
London
Correct me if I am wrong, Willy, but I believe the following two caveats apply to the evidence that you have supplied:

1) You have the enviable situation of not getting attacked very often (if at all) and so all of your evidence is from an attacking point of view. Therefore, since you pick the targets, you are more likely to do more damage than you receive (even with the times you have zeroed yourself attacking)

2) You have been attacking at low levels (30%-50% most of the time) so your results are clearly going to be more favourable.

My point is that, YES I actually do agree with you, Dragons are excellent. I just don't think that the evidence you have supplied shows that, I think you could supply those same kinds of statistics independent of your route this round, due to your playstyle.
 
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